Casey Stoner versus F1 car versus "Supercar"

[Garandman]

[Brendin87]

I'd like to see that done with Casey's race bike

[union]

I'd like to see that done with Casey's race bike

Or Webber actually using the gas pedal.

[Tricky Mike]

I'd like to see that done with Casey's race bike

It would still be a slaughter.
The MotoGP vs F1 lap records speak for themselves.


Sepang as an example:

Marquez: 1:59.533
Montoya: 1:34.223

[butcher bergs]

Remove the downforce from the F1 car and the V8 Supercar

[Garandman]

This was a short course and the difference was something like 17 seconds.

F1 cars are just nuts. It's amazing humans can control them.

[Tricky Mike]

Remove the downforce from the F1 car and the V8 Supercar

And make it run on 1/3 the horsepower delivered to two tiny contact patches

[TheIglu]

F1 cars are math. Motorcycles are music.

[butcher bergs]

And make it run on 1/3 the horsepower delivered to two tiny contact patches

I have always been of the mindset that downforce skews the outcome of these comparisions.

F1 cars can generate at least 5000lbs of downforce
V8 Supercars are somewhere in the 2200 range
MotoGP bikes? Little to none

Power to weight ratio could also be more aligned but the addition of downforce on the cars gives a false perception, IMO


Oh and

[PhilB]

Downforce isn't a "skew"; it's a legitimate advantage of having a stable platform. It's like seeing who can swim faster, a man or a dolphin, and then complaining that the contest isn't fair because the dolphin has fins. "Man, fins skew the outcome and gives a false perception. Take away those fins and see how it does."

PhilB

[MHenry600]

Downforce isn't a "skew"; it's a legitimate advantage of having a stable platform. It's like seeing who can swim faster, a man or a dolphin, and then complaining that the contest isn't fair because the dolphin has fins. "Man, fins skew the outcome and gives a false perception. Take away those fins and see how it does."

PhilB

What's the point of comparing different vehicle types if you make them all the same (remove downforce from this, make the power to weight that)? It's interesting to see the differences. When something is staged like this, it's usually too much for show though. Looking at real track lap times (like the Sepang ones above) is where you truly see the differences.

[butcher bergs]

Downforce isn't a "skew"; it's a legitimate advantage of having a stable platform. It's like seeing who can swim faster, a man or a dolphin, and then complaining that the contest isn't fair because the dolphin has fins. "Man, fins skew the outcome and gives a false perception. Take away those fins and see how it does."

PhilB

Your comparison is a stretch at best. The dolphin doesn't have artificial enhancements added to how it stays within and moves through the ocean whereas the F1 and V8 Supercar have enhancements to artificially enhance traction. My contention is to remove that artificial grip and let's see what's what.

[Tricky Mike]

Not sure where you're getting "artificial" from. F1 cars have wings. An F1 car WITHOUT all that aero wouldn't be an F1 car.

[gumby]

Holy smoke.

[butcher bergs]

Not sure where you're getting "artificial" from. F1 cars have wings. An F1 car WITHOUT all that aero wouldn't be an F1 car.

I clearly stated to remove the down force as in "reduce to zero". I can't state it any simpler than that.

[Garandman]

F1 cars have all sorts of limitations. But at NHMS nee' Bryar back in the day I believe Formula Atlantics and even Formula Fords were faster than the motorcycle track record. Formula Fords of that time are the Club Fords of today and aero was minimal.

It might be more interesting to have a claiming race for a certain amount instead of comparing a car built of unobtamium.

[Tricky Mike]

I clearly stated to remove the down force as in "reduce to zero". I can't state it any simpler than that.

Ok, I think I get it now.
The square root of pi is jazz hands.
I love you Bergsy but I think I have no idea what we're talking about anymore.

[aldend123]

I think I get how we play this game! So we should remove the artificial downforce, because that's an unfair advantage. But the rider shouldn't be allowed to artificially change the motorcycle's weight distribution by moving around on the bike. The F1 car doesn't get to have dynamic weight distribution, so neither should the bike.

[tsorfas]

Winter came so fast and early. Damn

[Tricky Mike]

That's what she said.

[tsorfas]

That's what she said.

I get that a lot

[butcher bergs]

All I'm saying is that I'd like to see one of these comparisons where the cars don't have their down force cranked up. With that one variable in the equation the bike will always lose because it does not have the mechanical ability to increase grip as speeds rise.

[aldend123]

With that one variable in the equation the bike will always lose because it does not have the mechanical ability to increase grip as speeds rise.

Oh good so we're all on the same page: The F1 car is faster, and therefore superior unless you handicap it

[butcher bergs]

"Superior" is a little on the optimistic side. Make the available grip a constant for all vehicles then go out and rip laps off.

[FirstDuc-1098]