Riding in Group with inexperienced or overenthusiastic riders

[kamikaze]

I do not know if it has been discussed already or not. I was just thinking of an event which happened a while ago with a group ride (more like a 5-6 day tour). We were going to Spiti Valley. It's one of the toughest roads out there and you cross a pass at 15,000 ft. Basically one has to be experienced in mountains to be able to do it. My riding club in India organised osrt of a official tour and there were about 14 riders on it. Most of them experienced and older but some experienced riders in city but few highway or none mountain miles under their belt.

I saw this one kid who seemed super jealous from the day we decided the trip and it also showed in his riding as we left Delhi. He rammed into a cycle rickshaw once trying to cut across a car. I told him - H (lets call him H), do not try to go too fast. Long tours are about endurance not speed. We were lucky he did not fall (he also had a pillion) and did not get hurt but took sometime (there were 14 riders) to gther his plastics - the douche noozle insisted on it. Anyways wasted more than one hour there. But its hard to explain to a 19 year old kid (I was 25 then). As we went up the mountains, I saw that this guy was trying to keep up with the faster group. Most of us had lots of experience in the hills and hence knew what we were doing. I was sweeping and as I came around a corner, I saw a bike crashed into the mountain. He was lucky he did not go over the hill into the valley and luckily was wearing gear. He was not very hurt bleeding and shit and started to panick.

Obviously we were not a bunch of CBR_Knights to leave the kid alone to die. All 14 riders stopped, tried calling ambulances and towing companies and some people got first aid kid. We got him to a hospital, sent his bike back to Delhi. I was a little furious as we wasted a good day of riding and later could not do one segment of the tour becos of wasted day. However given the situation, we got him treated at the hospital and next day placed him in a bus back to Delhi.

I am wondering how do you guys handle such difficult people. At a point (after first incident and before he crashed) I wanted to ask him to go back home. However it was one of the official trips (Its club culture to have annual or semi annual tours to let non experienced people tour in company of experienced ones). Other club members thought it would be rude to send someone home. 4 riders dropped out after the first day - I think it was better rather then having them sick or crashing in remote areas.

What do you guys think? Should inexperienced riders be allowed on difficult trips?

PS: I now this is totally random but some friends back home just did the part we missed and its totally awesome!

Just in case you are curious, here are some pics from my trip:

[The Snowman]

It reminds me of V's ride this summer. Riding with a bunch of people who need more road time to learn how to ride.

That's why I rode sweep most of it. (at least until Rob & I broke out on rt 2 and I had my unfortunate DPW hole incident)

[DucDave]

First...that looks like a really cool ride....now I'm jealous.

Its hard to tell someone how to ride. Since I am often in front I don't see a lot of what goes on but a couple years ago we were on a group ride and a couple of the guys ripped stand-up wheelies in the middle of the group running down rt. 101 toward Keene. I stopped at the next gas station and went over and had a talk with them. I could see they were a little annoyed but they were fine the rest of the ride. Another time a guy showed up to meet us mid way through a ride. He started to mount up with no helmet. I asked him to put his on and he did.

It's fair to ask people in a group ride to try and 'get with the spirit' of the ride.

If someone crashes on a group ride I feel the leader is responsible to see he gets medical attention if he needs it. But the 'group' part of the ride is over and I do not feel responsible for his motorcycle other than to see it is somewhere protected where he can decide what to do later.

At the end of the day, a group ride is about the group...not one person.

My 2 cents...

(btw...I have been really lucky to have some great folks on group rides I've been on...!!!)

[SVRACER01]

i had to ride with these 2 twats once. one guy had a suction cup mohawk on his helmet and the other clown had on some dayglow yellow suit. twats...both of em

[boloson]

call Big-Shirl. him & glycoma man can emphasize the importance of passing on group rides.

[breakdirt916]

around here, the more senior riders encouraged me to "ride my own ride" and not be concerned about keeping up with faster riders.

hearing it from the more senior members def. kept my attitude in check, and practicing fast riding at a track day helped me to see my inexperience in practice

off topic: where in India are these rides? how can I get in on one if I ever go to visit??

[kamikaze]

First...that looks like a really cool ride....now I'm jealous.

Its hard to tell someone how to ride. Since I am often in front I don't see a lot of what goes on but a couple years ago we were on a group ride and a couple of the guys ripped stand-up wheelies in the middle of the group running down rt. 101 toward Keene. I stopped at the next gas station and went over and had a talk with them. I could see they were a little annoyed but they were fine the rest of the ride. Another time a guy showed up to meet us mid way through a ride. He started to mount up with no helmet. I asked him to put his on and he did.

It's fair to ask people in a group ride to try and 'get with the spirit' of the ride.

If someone crashes on a group ride I feel the leader is responsible to see he gets medical attention if he needs it. But the 'group' part of the ride is over and I do not feel responsible for his motorcycle other than to see it is somewhere protected where he can decide what to do later.

At the end of the day, a group ride is about the group...not one person.

My 2 cents...

(btw...I have been really lucky to have some great folks on group rides I've been on...!!!)

I think I will make a thread about my trips in India. I have already seen ur ride trips on your website. Look great.

Also, you shoud plan a trip to India for an adventure ride trip.

around here, the more senior riders encouraged me to "ride my own ride" and not be concerned about keeping up with faster riders.

hearing it from the more senior members def. kept my attitude in check, and practicing fast riding at a track day helped me to see my inexperience in practice

off topic: where in India are these rides? how can I get in on one if I ever go to visit??

The problem is when the "ride your ride" becomes "I am better than experienced rider" and "I am faster" and "I can wheelie but can not see the gravel on the road".....

My riding which improved was with a friend of mine who is great (he won the first motocross he ever participated in). I took me about two trips riding with him to gain pace. Kids sometimes want to go too fast too quick without learning the technique (some did not even know of counter steering).

This is in Spiti Valley in Himachal Pradesh in the North. If you are ever going to India, let me know in advance. There are no organized tours per-se but would find out if any of my friends are going during that period. THis valley is open (roads leading to it) only between May - late Sep

[The Snowman]

Also, you shoud plan a trip to India for an adventure ride trip.

Just stay out of the big cities. They don't know how to drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

[KillBill]

Just stay out of the big cities. They don't know how to drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

what a clusterfuck

[Woodsy]

Obviously we were not a bunch of CBR_Knights to leave the kid alone to die.

Well Done!! Fuck that kid

[Ken C]

This is one reason why the Sportriders of NE stopped organizing rides. We saw less skilled riders riding over their heads. We never had a crash on any of our rides that I was on, but the potential of a newbie tossing his bike was always there.

The best way to conduct a group ride where there are new riders is to separate the group. You need to have a couple of experienced riders who are willing to lead the newbies, but the pace must be appropriate for the slowest rider. This requires some altruistic individuals willing to give up the opportunity to rip, which is a problem.

Remember that new riders don't know what "riding their own ride" means, because they aren't experienced enough to accurately judge their abilities. Less-than-cautious riders learn what the limit is by crashing.

[Ken C]

It's dangerous to assume that everyone is on the same page, so one other thing we did was hold brief rider's meetings. We would encourage people to not try and keep up to the more experienced riders and made sure everyone understood that we expected everyone involved to ride smart.

[Karaya One]

Had a couple go down on a SRNE ride I was leading once. Sand in a corner. We knew enough to look for it and slow. Others did not have that foresight and just entered that turn like any other.

Me, Tim Moore, Al Hutton, Paige, I think ChR1s made it through like any other corner. Next riders did not.

Bikes in the woods a few moments later....

Not a great feeling, and probably the SRNE turning point.

[ChR1s]

Had a couple go down on a SRNE ride I was leading once. Sand in a corner. We knew enough to look for it and slow. Others did not have that foresight and just entered that turn like any other.

Me, Tim Moore, Al Hutton, Paige, I think ChR1s made it through like any other corner. Next riders did not.

Bikes in the woods a few moments later....

Not a great feeling, and probably the SRNE turning point.

I missed that one. Though I was present at the fateful ride earlier that season.