MA lane-splitting Bill

[wiggeywackyo]

The bottom line is that irregardless of who violates what traffic law, trying to kill someone else is a really, really bad thing to do. I learned this a long time ago. Maybe some missed class that day.

On the other hand, I wouldn't dare split so fast relative to traffic that I could not stop or take some sort of evasive maneuver.

But as an automobile driver I find it laughable that people get so worked up because one more person gets in front of them. It's like a 2nd grader screaming out "Haaaaaay! Noooooo cutting! That's not fair!!!"

Get over yourself and realize that is one less driver on the road tying things up.

This should absolutely be legal. It should be expected. If you want to split, you are more than welcome to buy yourself a motorcycle and join me.

(All this from a guy who doesn't split.. btw.)

Exactly. I split regularly and when I do, it's never more than 10mph faster than traffic. I've seen jackasses ripping between cars with speed deltas of 25+ and it makes me scratch my head. Most of the responsibility should be on the splitting rider to do so safely which I think is quite reasonable since at a sane speed difference, the rider should have no problem seeing a possible danger and taking the proper action.

[SRTie4k]

With the amount of people who don't use directionals and swerve between lanes these days, I don't think I'd have the gut to do it. Driving down Route 2 in Mass is terrifying enough in a car, let alone on a bike between lanes.

[TheIglu]

I've done it. Only in stopped or 1st gear crawl situation, and only about 5mph more than the traffic. I've had "LUCKY!" and "CHEATER!" screamed at me. Sorry, but when 495 is a parking lot and I'm on a beatup old KLR with bark busters, going that slow by cars isn't dangerous to me, but it is dangerous to their paint/mirrors. People lose the macho braveness real quick when you are going by them slow vs ripping. That slow means you will either stop in plenty of time if they pull off a blocking move, or get bumped and be REAL pissed. And real pissed fully body armored guy on a bike vs someone in a car fully blocked in with no where to escape means they tend to be fairly courteous.

[MarkMarine]

In CA the law is 35 mph differential up to the speed limit (i.e. if everyone is going 40 and the limit is 50, you can go 50. if everyone is stopped, you can go 35... takes a lot of attention span to go 35 MPH when people are stopped, I used to miss exits because I was so focused on the cars in front of me, looking for a twitch or a squeeze or a fucking open car door)

My 600RR used to over heat in traffic, so on the hot 110 deg days it was definitely nice to have that as an option, otherwise the rider and the bike might have over heated.

[PhilB]

I read in the mags that they made it officially legal in CA a month or two ago. Proper language in the lawbooks and all. Might want to check

It has always been officially legal, because it was never officially illegal. That has not changed. The CHP has had, for many years, an informal guideline on doing it safely, which was pretty much spread by word-of-mouth. All that happened a few months ago was that the CHP posted that guideline on their website, thus making it more widely known how they think people should do it.

In CA the law is 35 mph differential up to the speed limit (i.e. if everyone is going 40 and the limit is 50, you can go 50. if everyone is stopped, you can go 35... takes a lot of attention span to go 35 MPH when people are stopped, I used to miss exits because I was so focused on the cars in front of me, looking for a twitch or a squeeze or a fucking open car door)

My 600RR used to over heat in traffic, so on the hot 110 deg days it was definitely nice to have that as an option, otherwise the rider and the bike might have over heated.

Incorrect. In CA, the law says nothing about it whatsoever. The CHP guideline says 10 mph faster than traffic, up to traffic speed of 35 mph. So if traffic is going 10, they suggest you go no more than 20. If traffic is going 35, they suggest you go no more than 45. If traffic is going 40, they suggest you should not share lanes. This is not strictly enforced as a law; they may stop you even if you abide by those guidelines if the situation is tight enough that even doing that is dangerous. Conversely, if there's lots of room, they generally let it slide if you're doing a bit more than the guidelines suggest.

PhilB

[MarkMarine]

It has always been officially legal, because it was never officially illegal. That has not changed. The CHP has had, for many years, an informal guideline on doing it safely, which was pretty much spread by word-of-mouth. All that happened a few months ago was that the CHP posted that guideline on their website, thus making it more widely known how they think people should do it.

Incorrect. In CA, the law says nothing about it whatsoever. The CHP guideline says 10 mph faster than traffic, up to traffic speed of 35 mph. So if traffic is going 10, they suggest you go no more than 20. If traffic is going 35, they suggest you go no more than 45. If traffic is going 40, they suggest you should not share lanes. This is not strictly enforced as a law; they may stop you even if you abide by those guidelines if the situation is tight enough that even doing that is dangerous. Conversely, if there's lots of room, they generally let it slide if you're doing a bit more than the guidelines suggest.

PhilB

Phil,
I took multiple motorcycle safety classes in CA, and your claims run counter to all of them, plus my personal experiences over the span of time I lived there.
Can you post anything that confirms what you're saying?

[Jim]

Mark, i took my bike to work today.
wanna get stuck in 93s, so i can go lane split past ya?

[obsolete]

http://i.imgur.com/au5SL1U.gif

Probably death in the link.

[golden chicken]

^ Ugh. Brutal.

[obsolete]

^ Ugh. Brutal.

Good point.

[tsorfas]

Not even remotely close to lane splitting

[DucDave]

Not even remotely close to lane splitting

Exactly...following too close...but, in fact, had he actually been splitting lanes nothing would have happened.

[PhilB]

Phil,
I took multiple motorcycle safety classes in CA, and your claims run counter to all of them, plus my personal experiences over the span of time I lived there.
Can you post anything that confirms what you're saying?

I lived there from the time I was born in 1962 until last year. I motorcycled there for 25 years, laneplitting daily; I have split over 40K miles of lanes.

Here is the link to the CHP guidelines posted right now on the CHP website, which say what I said, and not what you said: http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitting.html

PhilB

[MarkMarine]

Mark, i took my bike to work today.
wanna get stuck in 93s, so i can go lane split past ya?

You can split past me any time Jim. Much more efficient way to get through traffic, its like DOT added another lane

[MarkMarine]

I lived there from the time I was born in 1962 until last year. I motorcycled there for 25 years, laneplitting daily; I have split over 40K miles of lanes.

Here is the link to the CHP guidelines posted right now on the CHP website, which say what I said, and not what you said: http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitting.html

PhilB

If you lived there until last year, I'm sure you remember the rules not being defined that way, since those rules you're quoting were only laid out in Feb 2013.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ed-4270272.php

Oh and you sound pretty sanctimonious correcting people on shit when you should know flat out those guidelines didn't exist until 7 months ago.

[reks95]

I believe nearly all of the studies say that it's safer to lane split than to stay in traffic and get rear-ended.
Nearly all of the studies also say that it reduces congestion.

LANE SPLITTING DENIER

But seriously, if all those nanny-state euro countries allow it, it must be pretty safe in practice.

[number9]

There is no such word as "irregardless". HTH.

[golden chicken]

I believe nearly all of the studies say that it's safer to lane split than to stay in traffic and get rear-ended.
Nearly all of the studies also say that it reduces congestion.

LANE SPLITTING DENIER

But seriously, if all those nanny-state euro countries allow it, it must be pretty safe in practice.

From: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.pdf

3.2.13 Manner of Collision and Vehicle Role of the Motorcycle and Passenger Vehicle
Of the 1,792 two-vehicle crashes between motorcycles and a passenger vehicles in 2005,
146 (8%) were crashes where the manner of collision was not collision with a motor vehicle
in transport. This means the first harmful event (the event that causes the unstabilized
situation in the crash) was not the collision between the motorcycle and the
passenger vehicle. However, the most harmful event (the event that leads to the injury/
fatality in the crash) occurred during the collision between the motorcycle and the
passenger vehicle. Of the other crashes where the first harmful event recorded in the
crash was collision between the motorcycle and passenger vehicle; 640 (36%) were frontto-
side crashes where one vehicle hit the other vehicle at a right angle; 319 (18%) were
head-on crashes; 276 (15%) were front-to-side crashes in which the vehicles were moving
in the opposite direction; 204 (11%) were rear-end crashes; 82 (5%) were sideswipe
crashes and 63 (4%) were front-to-side crashes in which both the vehicles were moving
in the same direction.
Of the 640 front-to-side crashes between motorcycles and passenger vehicles where the
vehicles crashed into each other at right angles, 501 (78%) crashes, the role of the motorcycle
in the crash was recorded as striking the passenger vehicle and in 122 (19%)
crashes, the role of the passenger vehicle was recorded as striking the motorcycle.
Among the 319 head-on crashes between motorcycles and passenger vehicles, in 176
(55%) crashes, the role of the motorcycle in the crash was recorded as striking the passenger
vehicle, in 103 (32%) crashes, the role of the passenger vehicle was recorded as
striking the motorcycle and in 34 (11%) crashes the role for both the vehicles in the crash
was recorded as striking the other vehicle.
Of the 276 front-to-side crashes between motorcycles and passenger vehicles where the
vehicles crashed in the opposite direction, in 219 (79%) crashes the role of the motorcycle
in the crash was recorded as striking the passenger vehicle, and in 48 (17%) crashes
the role of the passenger vehicle was recorded as striking the motorcycle.
Of the 204 rear-end crashes between motorcycles and passenger vehicles, in 139 (68%)
crashes the role of the motorcycle in the crash was recorded as striking the passenger vehicle,
and in 59 (29%) crashes the role of the passenger vehicle was recorded as striking
the motorcycle. Table 19 shows motorcycle operators killed and passenger vehicle drivers
involved in two-vehicle crashes in 2005 by manner of collision and vehicle role.

Draw your own conclusions from this info, but what I see is that if you're going to die on a bike, under 4% chance it's going to be because you were rear-ended by a car and up to 9% because you and the car collided while going in the same direction (they turn across your path or sideswipe, etc.)

[reks95]

If you're gonna die in stop-n-go traffic, I'm guessing the "I didn't see everyone was stopped" rear end from 40+mph is going to be more fatal than getting knocked over while you're going 10mph.

The studies I was referring to compare motorcycle accident rates in comparable municipalities where one has lane splitting and the other doesn't. Overall statistics are going to be dominated by what you're doing when you're not in traffic lane splitting and are probably not relevant.

[obsolete]

Not even remotely close to lane splitting

Exactly...following too close...but, in fact, had he actually been splitting lanes nothing would have happened.

Sho nuff, but it shows the dangers of minor impact in close quarters... say like opening a door on someone.

[jwm2k3]

Not gonna say I split lanes, but if someone opened a door or swerved to stop me and it caused me to crash or get hurt, Im fucking them right in their ass with my front tire. Have a nice day!

[Legally Jackie]

I was out in CA both last week and earlier this week. Last week I was traveling between San Jose and San Rafael and had a motorcycle do this. The guy came up behind me so much faster than traffic was moving and swerved to the right at what seemed like the very last second before he would've hit my car and then flew up the right side of my lane. I'm easily spooked, and obviously not used to bikes doing that since I live in MA, but I nearly jumped out of my seat. Seemed like he was using the "lane splitting" as an excuse to weave in and out of traffic and it surely didn't look safe to me.

To be fair, though, I was on 405 in LA this Tuesday and saw a couple bikes lane split at much slower speeds and that seemed fine.

Not looking for a debate/argument with anyone. Just thought this conversation was interesting since I was just out there.

[nhbubba]

I've seen behavior like you describe on Rt 3 north of Burlington MA.

Sometimes its just the rider.

[PhilB]

If you lived there until last year, I'm sure you remember the rules not being defined that way, since those rules you're quoting were only laid out in Feb 2013.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ed-4270272.php

Oh and you sound pretty sanctimonious correcting people on shit when you should know flat out those guidelines didn't exist until 7 months ago.

yet again. Let's try some reading comprehension. I said:

It has always been officially legal, because it was never officially illegal. That has not changed. The CHP has had, for many years, an informal guideline on doing it safely, which was pretty much spread by word-of-mouth. All that happened a few months ago was that the CHP posted that guideline on their website, thus making it more widely known how they think people should do it.

This is exactly correct. I remember the informal word-of-mouth guideline, and that it was very close to what they published more recently. And I read about when they published it and saw that what they posted on their website was pretty much exactly what they had been telling people all along.

You said:

In CA the law is 35 mph differential up to the speed limit (i.e. if everyone is going 40 and the limit is 50, you can go 50. if everyone is stopped, you can go 35... takes a lot of attention span to go 35 MPH when people are stopped, I used to miss exits because I was so focused on the cars in front of me, looking for a twitch or a squeeze or a fucking open car door)

This is completely wrong. Your claim that "the law is ..." is entirely false; the law never has said that, and still doesn't. And your claim as to what is allowed does not resemble anything that anyone has said, ever, anywhere.

I said:

Incorrect. In CA, the law says nothing about it whatsoever. The CHP guideline says 10 mph faster than traffic, up to traffic speed of 35 mph. So if traffic is going 10, they suggest you go no more than 20. If traffic is going 35, they suggest you go no more than 45. If traffic is going 40, they suggest you should not share lanes. This is not strictly enforced as a law; they may stop you even if you abide by those guidelines if the situation is tight enough that even doing that is dangerous. Conversely, if there's lots of room, they generally let it slide if you're doing a bit more than the guidelines suggest.

Which is exactly what is the case, and what the CHP guidelines say, except that I thought they said "35" mph, and they went more conservative at "30" mph.

The CHP says:

Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal in the state of California. ...

Motorcyclists who are competent enough riders to lane split, should follow these general guidelines if choosing to lane split:
1) Travel at a speed that is no more than 10 MPH faster than other traffic – danger increases at higher speed differentials.
2) It is not advisable to lane split when traffic flow is at 30 mph or faster – danger increases as overall speed increases. ...

Which is closer to this; the crap you spewed, or the information I provided?

Sheesh.

PhilB

[jwm2k3]

Dear automobile driver, please just let the motorcyclists go, dont get mad, dont try to interfere or stop them, give it just 20 seconds and they will be out of your life.

Thank you,

The Motorcyclist.