trail braking

[catch2otwo]

trail braking came up in the target fixation thread, and would like some more explaining. so instead of disrupting the other thread ill ask here.

so obviously its not good to stab on the brakes when your mid corner, so wuts the deal with this trail braking?

[OreoGaborio]

I posted a link in that thread that gets into the physics behind it, did you see it?

[Wishbone]

Im not a racer and never claim to be, but i'll give my best explanation.

This has only been possible within the past few years or so because forks have been made stronger so it is possible for them to withstand the force applied when cornering and braking. So simply put it is braking after you are leaned over.

There was a better explanation in 'motorcyclist" or "cycle world" in the tec answered part at the end of the mag. maybe a year or so back. some one might know which mag and what month/year it was

[catch2otwo]

I posted a link in that thread that gets into the physics behind it, did you see it?

i must have posted this right after you posted it. i just didnt want to clutter his thread. ill check it out

[OreoGaborio]

This has only been possible within the past few years or so because forks have been made stronger so it is possible for them to withstand the force applied when cornering and braking.

Past few years???? Uh oh.... I should stop trail braking on my 1989 ex500 then

[catch2otwo]

looked at your link and didnt find any specific write up on trail braking technique. but the things ive read is that once your mid turn just ease on the brakes? what about on the street if your coming around the corner and you need to stop. just stand it up and stop or is there something im missing

[Wishbone]

ok thanks pete for picking that apart now think about it. how does the ex feel when you do it? like spageti fork? now how about the zx? little better riiight? you know what im talking about

check this out brake/throttle paragraph especially

[catch2otwo]

good stuff, i need to go to the track..

[13]

Past few years???? Uh oh.... I should stop trail braking on my 1989 ex500 then

Yeah, I'm with ya! My 1988 NT650 probably can't handle it either then, crap. Damn newfangled technology making all our old racebikes obsolete.

[OreoGaborio]

ok thanks pete for picking that apart now think about it. how does the ex feel when you do it? like spageti fork? now how about the zx? little better riiight? you know what im talking about

check this out brake/throttle paragraph especially

the EX front end feels like a spaghetti fork whether or not I'm trail braking. Does it put some magical force on it that exceeds anything else it encounters in normal riding and braking? I'd put money on the likely hood that the fork sees much more force during upright braking when the traction limit of the tire is at it's greatest. THAT'S when the EX fork feels like strands of spaghetti, not while trail braking.

I've never heard, seen or read anything about the trail braking ability of a motorcycle being related to the STRENGTH of a bike's front end.

[BMFR6]

Past few years???? Uh oh.... I should stop trail braking on my 1989 ex500 then

pete.... it an EX. why the hell are you on the brakes anyways ya pussy.

[OreoGaborio]

to keep from running into the back of those slowpokes on SV's

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Trail Braking Is, Keeping the brakes on lightly and releasing them in direct proportion to the amount of lean angle. (you first apply the brakes while you are upright setting you corner entry speed)

This requires a fine and precise touch (much more then say throttle control that in itself requires a lot)

I only trail brake when I absolutely need to.

Most inportant:

LET GO OF THE BRAKE LEVER ,GOING OFF THE BRAKE SHOULD BE AS DELIBERATE AS PUTTING THEM ON.

you milage may vary

[BMFR6]

looked at your link and didnt find any specific write up on trail braking technique. but the things ive read is that once your mid turn just ease on the brakes? what about on the street if your coming around the corner and you need to stop. just stand it up and stop or is there something im missing

trail braking in a nutshell is carrying the brakes into a corner at lean, not really easing on the brakes mid corner. i wanted to keep this short but... maybe not.

lets say it takes you 50 feet to slow down for a corner. standard practice is to brake for the 50 feet upright, let off the brakes and turn in.

when you trail brake you start to brake later, turn in while easing off the brakes to your desired mid corner speed and go about your business.

when correctly used, you are still using 50 feet to brake for the same corner, but its not in a straight line while upright. by starting to brake later and carrying the brakes at lean you have extended the time you are on the gas prior to applying the brakes. really only important on a race track.

to answer your second question, on the street, if you have time to stan the bike up and stop, do it. its safer. your front tire can only do so much, asking it to brake and corner is asking a lot of it.

did any of that make sense?

edit: when used incorrectly/not its designated purpose, its the ability to have a soft enough touch on the brakes to keep them on after turn in for a corner you came in to too hot and still keep the bike on two wheels..

[BMFR6]

to keep from running into the back of those slowpokes on SV's

It's called racing for a reason....... maybe you should try passing them???

[Daytona440]

It's called racing for a reason....... maybe you should try passing them???

haha, ZING!

[OreoGaborio]

why would I need to? I'm in PTwins, all the EX's are behind me

[Wishbone]

the EX front end feels like a spaghetti fork whether or not I'm trail braking. Does it put some magical force on it that exceeds anything else it encounters in normal riding and braking? I'd put money on the likely hood that the fork sees much more force during upright braking when the traction limit of the tire is at it's greatest. THAT'S when the EX fork feels like strands of spaghetti, not while trail braking.

I've never heard, seen or read anything about the trail braking ability of a motorcycle being related to the STRENGTH of a bike's front end.

ok so maybe Im way off on that. The information I was trying to relay was from a technical reply in a magazine from at least a year ago. SORRY I mixed it up, but I still think it has a factor into being able to do it or not

[catch2otwo]

trail braking in a nutshell is carrying the brakes into a corner at lean, not really easing on the brakes mid corner. i wanted to keep this short but... maybe not.

lets say it takes you 50 feet to slow down for a corner. standard practice is to brake for the 50 feet upright, let off the brakes and turn in.

when you trail brake you start to brake later, turn in while easing off the brakes to your desired mid corner speed and go about your business.

when correctly used, you are still using 50 feet to brake for the same corner, but its not in a straight line while upright. by starting to brake later and carrying the brakes at lean you have extended the time you are on the gas prior to applying the brakes. really only important on a race track.

to answer your second question, on the street, if you have time to stan the bike up and stop, do it. its safer. your front tire can only do so much, asking it to brake and corner is asking a lot of it.

did any of that make sense?

edit: when used incorrectly/not its designated purpose, its the ability to have a soft enough touch on the brakes to keep them on after turn in for a corner you came in to too hot and still keep the bike on two wheels..

makes sense..

[BMFR6]

why would I need to? I'm in PTwins, all the EX's are behind me

lol. If it's PTwins....... dare I ask why there are SV's on the track with you?

[jimaug87]

There is a hairpin turn at the end of my street that always gives me trouble. The street itself can handle 50-60 but this turn is a 30mph turn for me. Since I've had my bike I've been braking entirrly before the turn, leaning thru it, then gassing. My ride might be a lot smoother if I learn to trail brake it. Thanks guys. I have to work on this.

Of course, after it stops freakin' raining!

[benVFR]

lets say it takes you 50 feet to slow down for a corner. standard practice is to brake for the 50 feet upright, let off the brakes and turn in.

when you trail brake you start to brake later, turn in while easing off the brakes to your desired mid corner speed and go about your business.

when correctly used, you are still using 50 feet to brake for the same corner, but its not in a straight line while upright. by starting to brake later and carrying the brakes at lean you have extended the time you are on the gas prior to applying the brakes. really only important on a race track.

One thing is if you do it trail braking you're probably not going to slow down in 50 feet... maybe you take 60-70ft... cause you certainly can't brake as hard as you lean in.

I think it's a good thing to learn at the track to maybe have as an extra skill for an emergency.. but not something that you should need to do often on the street?

IMO if you needed to do it on the street you're going way way too fast.

[ku996r]

great, thanks for the explanation. I've always been braking, rolloff entering apex then gas up after apex. I'll try trail braking on Aug 28 TTD.

[BMFR6]

disclaimer: learn to trailbrake very cautiously. its very easy to over do it and you don't want to interupt everyone else's track time or screw it up on the street.

as far as the track goes, on most of the corners if you are just doing a track day you may find more benefit by braking upright and working on a quicker turn in rather than trailbraking. its safer as well. (don't try quick turn in and trail braking at the same time)

[OreoGaborio]

There is a hairpin turn at the end of my street that always gives me trouble. The street itself can handle 50-60 but this turn is a 30mph turn for me. Since I've had my bike I've been braking entirrly before the turn, leaning thru it, then gassing. My ride might be a lot smoother if I learn to trail brake it. Thanks guys. I have to work on this.

Of course, after it stops freakin' raining!

no, it'd be smoother if you opened the throttle earlier. Application of throttle makes the bike much more stable in a turn than trail braking does. You don't have to be accelerating, just get the throttle cracked open so you aren't coasting or slowing down. then as you begin to exit the turn accelerate out of it.