Last ride of the season = blue lights!

[Trouble]

A friend and I went out for a ride Friday afternoon. Figured we'd hit up the Ap Gap because it was too late to get over to NY. We were headed south on 116, and turned onto 17 just before Bristol. Even before we got to the first corner we caught up to a one ton dump truck. It didn't have a tailgate and had some loose (not even tied down) slab wood sticking out the back as well as some tools in the front of the bed. The first straight stretch available I passed it. I think the other rider passed him on the same straight. It admittedly wasn't a very long straight but I didn't want to be stuck behind a slow moving truck with a bunch of unrestrained stuff in the back while going uphill for a long and sort of rough stretch of road.

Maybe three miles later there are blue lights behind us. The officer had been headed north on 116. He saw us pull onto 17 behind the truck and "thought that we were going to do something stupid". He turned around on 116 and caught up to the dump truck. At this point he knew we had passed the dump truck and chased us down. He explained that he was going to give us tickets for passing inappropriately (I forget the exact phrase). While he was politely explaining this to us the dump truck pulled in and the officer went over and talked to the driver for a while. We pulled out our licenses, registrations, and insurance. The officer returned and gave us the tickets, explaining that it is illegal to pass on corners, the crest of a hill, and railroad tracks. The officer was always very polite and helpful.

It has been a long season with some excellent riding. I have done a few things that were admittedly illegal, and I wouldn't have contested the ticket. It's a bummer to end the season on a note like this. I'm going to contest the ticket for a few reasons. I honest to god did not pass around the corner. It was admittedly a short straight area but I don't believe it was a reckless pass. I felt safer making the pass than I would have following the dump truck. The officer admitted he was not present when we made the pass, so I don't see how he can judge whether or not it was a safe one. I'm not sure what he discussed with the dump truck operator but there might be a witness that says otherwise. It also burns me that the officer was so certain that the two motorcycles were up to no good that he turned around and chased us down before he even witnessed us doing anything wrong. I know that's no reason to fight the ticket, but it is in the back of my mind.

I have an excellent driving/riding record and I hope that works in my favor. I've never been in an accident with my motorcycle and never even been pulled over while riding. The last speeding ticket I got was in a car in 1999. I haven't been pulled over since.

Sorry for the long write up but I'm still stewing over the whole incident.

[Danno]

I would suggest doing some research and getting the language for whatever was cited in your ticket.

You might consider bringing your buddy as your witness, in case the cop changes his story. If he tells it as he told you, I don't see how the ticket can be upheld. Even if the driver of the truck or another person had something to say about your driving, you can't just pull people over, cite them and then go looking for witnesses. At least, not without invoking the Patriot Act.

[KillBill]

If the driver of the dump-truck gave a statement to the officer
then it will be tough to challenge.

I was charged with Reckless a couple years ago and it was all
based on what another driver saw. No cop was present.

I should have hired an attorney. It would have saved me points on my license, increased premiums and would have allowed me to keep my license instead of losing it for 3 months.

and on a side note - I have never been issued a speeding ticket and no accidents in my 12 year driving record.

[richw]

I'ld at least say to the court the pick up driver made hand motions that you thought was waving you passed.

If this is refuted then say well maybe he was throwing me the finger but it looked like a wave me by to me

[Trouble]

The ticket shows the wording for the violation, I just can't remember it right now.

I've already mailed in my ticket contesting it.

I'm a little worried about what the truck operator may have said to the officer. The officer didn't seem to write anything down or anything. I'm not sure if that means anything though.

I'm not going to add anything to my story. If the judge doesn't see my side of the story, so be it. If it was just the $141 fine I'd probably just pay it. I just don't want the 2 points on my license.

[loridin64]

if the ticketing cop didnt see the violation he cant give you a ticket. Unless he was told by the truck driver, because he had suspicion, he can write it. As well if any other officer, even off duty, can inform the local police and they can then write you a ticket.

[Trouble]

if the ticketing cop didnt see the violation he cant give you a ticket. Unless he was told by the truck driver, because he had suspicion, he can write it. As well if any other officer, even off duty, can inform the local police and they can then write you a ticket.

I suspected that he couldn't give me a ticket for something he didn't witness, but wasn't sure of. I didn't realize that he would be able to take the word of the truck driver. Bummer. Well, I'll see how this goes.

[richw]

I don't think the license plate helps.

Get a new one like 4-LAW

[Trouble]

Oh that plate is off of a bike that I sold a while back. My current plate is just the DMV issued letter/numbers.

[schleppy]

I would contest on the grounds that the dump truck driver is an unreliable witness. The guy was driving heavy machinery on public roads with an unsecured load (something they get pulled over for often), and you and your friend were fearful of the load falling out in front of you.

You and your friends word against his...

[Danno]

If the cop did not speak to the driver until after you were stopped, and better yet, cited, it doesn't matter.

If he pulled you over for something else, like a bad light or even just to check your registration and *then* the truck driver told him something terrible about you, that's a scenario that could stand up in court. Since the driver will likely not be at your hearing, there's another challenge for hearsay but I suspect traffic court would favor the cop on this point.

But fishing for corroboration without the initial "information" in "information and belief" leaves us with just "belief" - again, only works w/the Patriot Act.

[markbvt]

FWIW -- when I got a ticket in August 2007, I was told by someone who knows a lot of cops that the state's attorney had apparently been throwing out a large number of tickets, so many state troopers had resorted to writing tickets for relatively high fines but low points in hopes that people would just pay the ticket. This was true of the ticket I got -- only 2 points when he could have given me a lot more.

If this is still going on, you probably stand an excellent chance of having the ticket dismissed, or at least having the points eliminated.

--mark

[Half Squid]

Fight the "MAN" sound to me the Officer is in the wrong here without witnessing anything first hand..

Ussing the unsafe load details about the truck is a good reason to get away from the truck and him waving you by/or waving the finger at you may not stand up in court, but worth a shot.

It is doughtfull the pick up truck driver will be there as a witness to the story, so u should just say the driver pulled to the side and waved you by. The cop will have nothing to back up the story of you passing the truck and pulling you over without witnessing himself an act of "Breaking the law" Speculation.

Now you said he did not write anything down after talking with the driver of the truck right? If this is true unless he knows him personally there is most likely no way he will be able to track him down again in order to come forth as a witness in court against you. Doughtfull they would even ask him of this for just a traffic ticket. The least they would do is ask him for a written statement, but doesn't sound like they took one from him....

FIGHT IT!!! good luck. its worth a shot anyways!

[Trouble]

The only other time that I contested a ticket the officer remembered a very different situation than I did. It was the first time that I had dealt with something like that from a law officer, and, while it may happen more often than I'd like to believe, I'm still hoping this officer is honest and truthful. I won't be caught as off guard this time though. Not that there is much that I can do, but I won't be quite as disillusioned this time. It's a big bad world out there.

[Doc]

If you hadn't have done the wheelie as you passed the truck you would have been fine.

[Just_Jeff]

Ends up simply that the officer saw nothing.
Now its your word vs teh "other" driver.
His story, your a hooligan motorcycle rider.
Your story
You were behind a unsafe vehicle with loose cargo and when on a straight he veered a bit to the side you thought he was giving you room to pass without actually stopping. maybe you misread his intention sorry. But Mr policeman had no issue catching up to us, saw us do nothing, we pulled over when signaled.
You = law abiding citizen on a motorcycle

[richw]

See the ADA

Volunteer to give to charity if it gets tossed

[be4tnut]

So he admitted to profiling you for being on motorcycle and then pulling you over without ever witnessing you breaking the law? Hmmm...

[Pittenger5]

Even if a car waves you by, its still illegal to pass unless they're completely off the road.

[ChrisNoF4i]

Was there a Yield sign anywhere in sight?

[Danno]

Maybe three miles later there are blue lights behind us. The officer had been headed north on 116. He saw us pull onto 17 behind the truck and "thought that we were going to do something stupid". He turned around on 116 and caught up to the dump truck. At this point he knew we had passed the dump truck and chased us down. He explained that he was going to give us tickets for passing inappropriately (I forget the exact phrase). While he was politely explaining this to us the dump truck pulled in and the officer went over and talked to the driver for a while. We pulled out our licenses, registrations, and insurance. The officer returned and gave us the tickets, explaining that it is illegal to pass on corners, the crest of a hill, and railroad tracks. The officer was always very polite and helpful.

Based on what you described here, I'm going to guess that the cop will say that just before he spotted you, there was a hill or a corner or railroad track or all of these. IOW, you were behind the truck headed into an area where you could do "something stupid".

I would look at google maps and maybe even go back to determine (a) where he could have first spotted you and then (b) which of those barriers to legally passing occurred after that point.

In an ideal world, there would be none. It's pretty likely there were corners and hills, so I'd figure how far after he spotted you'd have to travel to reach those points.

If he tells the truth, and that's obviously a big if, your job is now to reduce his handwaving generalized speculation (and the inferred characterization of your driving skills) to realistic odds. If there were only two places where that could have occured between the point where he spotted you and where you were pulled over, and let's suppose those two spots were over two miles, you could offer that 90% of the distance you covered offered the possibility of passing illegally, reducing his speculation to a staggering 10% chance of being correct.

If he lies about spotting you from the opposite lane, ask him about where he was coming from and where his previous logged incident occurred. He might be able to answer, but it's possible the answer would prove he was coming from the other direction.

One more thought. Assuming he didn't say anything about your speed when he stopped you, ask him how fast you were going. He will probably not answer, or make a comment like "fast", or "legal", or whatever. If he implies you were going fast, ask why he didn't write you for speeding. It's a fair question, given that no speculation would be involved. At some point, he'll have to admit your speed was reasonable, or completely lose credibility.

Ask him what time it was when he first spotted you. He may not know, that's fine, makes him look worse. Ask him what time he pulled you over. He better know this, or he's really on thin ice.

Ask him how fast the truck was going when he passed the truck. He probably won't know.

Now he's helped make your case for why it was safer to pass the truck. Given the amount of time it took for him to pull you over and the fact that you weren't speeding, ask him if it's possible the truck was going slow enough with especially hazardous hanging cargo for any vehicle, never mind a motorcycle, where staying behind was potentially more dangerous than passing.

[Degsy]

I would contest this ticket.

The biggest reason for me to do so would be the fact that the officer did not directly see you pass the dump truck...........

Correct. Can't believe I'm agreeing with cbr knight, but he is right.

Go to court, ask officer what he SAW. If he lies, then you are done. if he says he didn't see anything but dump truck driver did, then dump truck driver has to be there for you to face your accuser. If he isn't there, the judge will dismiss. Once again, cop is cunt.

A cop cannot enforce a ticket without a witness PRESENT in court (not without lying or a shady judge)

waits for cops on the board to pop up and say I'm wrong as usual whenever there is a ticket thread.

[Mr Bread]

Even if a car waves you by, its still illegal to pass unless they're completely off the road.

Not in VT. Only if there is a "no passing" sign.

[RandyO]

I don't think the officer cares if the ticket sticks

either you pay it or you waste a day going to court

let's wager odds that the LEO doesn't even show up for court, even if you get off, it still cost you your day in court

[Danno]

I don't think the officer cares if the ticket sticks

either you pay it or you waste a day going to court

let's wager odds that the LEO doesn't even show up for court, even if you get off, it still cost you your day in court

Maybe he was having a really, really slow day but.. he made a U turn on a hunch, passed the truck and pulled 'em over.