Never been a better time to be a 'entry level' rider!

[Pittenger5]

How do they wheelie?

[SVRACER01]

How do they wheelie?

you gotta get a few guys to lift it

[a13x]

How do they wheelie?

Pretty well. Ari and Zack were poppin willys all day. Not joking.

Kurlon. Dunno. Just what it was. Maybe stock gearing is too short. 70mph was 7000rpm on CBR and 80mph was 8500. I felt the Japanese bikes really would have benefitted from a 'overdrive' style 6th gear. My old 84 Ascot 500 had that.

[SRTie4k]

Now if only we could get away from the god awful sport bike craze. A 250/300 may make a great entry level motor, but stick it in a sporty bike frame with those ergos, you're not going to attract many shorter female types to the sport. We need more standard/naked alternatives to the low displacement entry level bikes, akin to the CB 300F, something with the cool factor but without the "my wrists and back are killing me" factor.

[Paul_E_D]

The Duke 390 IS a standard. Actually, they all pretty much have standard ergos.

[SRTie4k]

The Duke 390 IS a standard. Actually, they all pretty much have standard ergos.

I taught my wife how to ride on a Ninja 250, and she hated the ergos. She was stretched way too far out like she was sitting on a sport bike. She's 5'6". It's a completely different bike when you're 5'6" versus 6' or more.

According to cycle-ergo, the CBR and the KTM are WAY more aggressive than the older style Ninja 250. The KTM is 39* forward lean, the CBR is 27*, while the 01 Ninja 250 is 19*. That's a massive difference, and not even remotely close to "standard".

[nhbubba]

Paul is talking about the Duke 390. The RC is their sport offering and the Duke their standard.
I think the Duke 390 is pretty much exactly what you're asking for. And it looks cool as hell to my eye.

[SRTie4k]

I guess what I'm getting at is that the entry level bike market far and away still targets the sport bike crowd. What bikes in the 250/300 class do you have in naked other than the CB300F and the Duke 390? I guess you could consider the Yamaha SR400 (ugly) or the Suzuki GW's (also god awful ugly), but nothing really from Kawasaki, I wouldn't consider the Yamaha a contender, and nobody would be caught dead on a Suzuki GW.

There's next to nothing for entry level naked standards. Although at least they're trying now, unlike 5 years ago when none of the manufacturers even gave two shits.

[Kurlon]

Naked machines have never had super strong sales in the US. The MFGs are just following the customer demand trends.

[Point37]

Paul is talking about the Duke 390. The RC is their sport offering and the Duke their standard.
I think the Duke 390 is pretty much exactly what you're asking for. And it looks cool as hell to my eye.

i've been waiting for this bike to come to the states, still haven't seen one...i'd love to buy one of these...fun sized bikes

[TheIglu]

I guess what I'm getting at is that the entry level bike market far and away still targets the sport bike crowd. What bikes in the 250/300 class do you have in naked other than the CB300F and the Duke 390? I guess you could consider the Yamaha SR400 (ugly) or the Suzuki GW's (also god awful ugly), but nothing really from Kawasaki, I wouldn't consider the Yamaha a contender, and nobody would be caught dead on a Suzuki GW.

There's next to nothing for entry level naked standards. Although at least they're trying now, unlike 5 years ago when none of the manufacturers even gave two shits.

New riders, much like Jeep buyers (ha!), buy based on emotion, not logic.

[SRTie4k]

New riders, much like Jeep buyers (ha!), buy based on emotion, not logic.

I thought our motorcycle consumer base was beyond the "sweet gixxah dude" mentality at this point. I've seen WAY more naked standards today than I ever had 5 years ago. Every manufacturer now has at least one naked standard bike in their lineup, if not more. Why hasn't this trend shifted down to entry level bikes?

[a13x]

My wife is 5'4" and made the CBR look small (Tuesday track) Ergos were just fine for her. Jessica Prokup is about the same size (did street test in canyons) and felt the CBR, ZX, and R3 were all very small rider friendly. The RC390 was the biggest cockpit and more of a stretch for her. CBR and R3 were the tightest.

If you feel those bikes are 'too aggressive' in ergos then maybe the HD Street 500 is for you. Also Honda & KTM both make naked entry bikes and Suzuki has the GW250. GW is pretty ugly but other two are sharp. Again, more solid options than before....

[RandyO]

I guess what I'm getting at is that the entry level bike market far and away still targets the sport bike crowd. What bikes in the 250/300 class do you have

cruisers, Rebel 250, V-Star 250. TU250

[TheIglu]

I thought our motorcycle consumer base was beyond the "sweet gixxah dude" mentality at this point. I've seen WAY more naked standards today than I ever had 5 years ago. Every manufacturer now has at least one naked standard bike in their lineup, if not more. Why hasn't this trend shifted down to entry level bikes?

Entry level bikes are not bought by experienced, knowledgeable buyers. They have no experience, don't know what they want and just go by advice from similarly inexperienced riders and friends/family. Most of all, they go on what they see in the media and what looks the coolest. Most people start riding for image. Don't think so? Two words. Harley Davidson.

When you ask a teenage boy what he wants for his first car, does he say a 160k mile 1996 Toyota Camry? No. He says he wants a Camaro SS or Boss Mustang or a WRX STI.

It's the same way with motorcycles. People don't dream of owning a low HP budget learner bike. The more it looks like a cool stylish bike, the better it will do. They will learn what style they want once they learn the basics of riding (either I want to go faster! or ow my wrists hurt).

[SRTie4k]

The guys who buy bikes exclusively for looks or to "fit in" will always buy massive Harley's or 600cc sport bikes...those kinds of people are not the people these bikes are going to sell to though. You think revving a 300 is going to impress the college chicks crossing the road?

The ones who listen to actual riders when entering the sport are the reason why more sporty looking naked standards should exist - so that we have an entry level bike with an entry level price that anyone can fit on comfortably, still looks cool and is very forgiving. The CB 300F is currently the only available model that has all those qualities, at least until the Duke 390 comes around (if it can fit in the price bracket of entry level bike...and if it ever even appears).

The increased popularity of small displacement, entry level bikes is a great one. I just wish they'd put those qualities in a less prohibitive form factor.

[TheIglu]

You think someone who doesn't know anything about bikes knows that a 300 revving isn't a panty dropper?

You underestimate how little most new riders know.

[SRTie4k]

The guy who buys the 600cc sport bike as a first bike knows less than the guy who buys a 300cc entry level bike, IMO. It's my opinion that the guy that buys a 300 buys it because he has done a bit more research than your average squid douche who buys a 600 "because it's a sport bike".

[TheIglu]

The guy who buys the 600cc sport bike as a first bike knows less than the guy who buys a 300cc entry level bike, IMO. It's my opinion that the guy that buys a 300 buys it because he has done a bit more research than your average squid douche who buys a 600 "because it's a sport bike".

Exactly.

"Hey look yo, that sports bike is like hella cheaper than that other sports bike and they looks the same. I drink energy drinks and my hat brim is flat. "

[gixxer72]

The guy who buys the 600cc sport bike as a first bike knows less than the guy who buys a 300cc entry level bike, IMO. It's my opinion that the guy that buys a 300 buys it because he has done a bit more research than your average squid douche who buys a 600 "because it's a sport bike".

Maybe. If you know you are a competent machine operator/driver/etc and you want a 600 "sport bike" why should you buy a 300 or similar? Just so someone wont label you a "squid douche"? The douche factor may be higher with the 600 market, but there is a reason they are so popular: they perform their intended purposes extremely well and look good doing it.

I got my first streetbike in high school, a Honda CM450. I was grins for all of 5 minutes. The know-it-all crusty fuckers told me that those 750's I really wanted were death machines, especially those 'ninja type' bikes. I couldn't get rid of that 450 fast enough.

[loudbeard]

Since when did the squids start buying 600's? I thought they needed liter bikes. More powah yo!

My first was a 850 pound 1500 cc Victory. It was hell to learn on but I got there. To this day it's the only bike Ive sold that I really wish I still had.

[Crimedog]

Why would anyone in their right mind buy one of these as a beginner bike when you can't extend the swingarm or put on a 240+ rear tire?


More seriously, I hope to find a 390 Duke that has been "outgrown."

[Spooler]

Sat on a 390 Duke the other day and it felt *tiny*! It's nice looking and I would be very interested in riding it, though I'd probably need upgraded suspension from what I've heard. Taking my wife to sit on one this week....

[nhbubba]

I still have my first CB400. I love that thing.

As much as I want to love these smaller bikes, I agree that few US buyers will actually buy them. Too many 600+ cc choices.

These seem like an answer to the tiered licensing rules enforced overseas. Not shocking that several of these models were delayed here in the US.

[Kurlon]

And yet, at least in my area the CBR250R never actually sat on the showroom floor, they came in and immediately sold. The baby Ninja has been a top seller for Kawi for years.