Need tips on MA speeding laws

[Manny]

Wirelessly posted

Why can't you tell us what you drive?

It would help us estimate the outcome.

[tsorfas]

Lol at the speculation. Very entertaining.

When I go to judge, is the current offer of '70 on 55' a given, or since I'm appealing, does that get voided and judge can do what he pleases? Also, can I get a continuance for trial or not?

It is voided. You are going to argue 80 at 55

- - - Updated - - -

should have said 55. he was offering you both an easy out. when you say 'i don't know" its tough for him to find not responsible.

Fact. You say firmly I was going 55

[aldend123]

Did you say how fast you thought you were going during the stop? If so, this is usually recorded on the officer's carbon copy of the ticket for reference in court. This includes things like "I know I was going too fast". I think this would usually get brought up during the hearing, but I don't think they have to. Could dig it up for the court case.

I think you can request a copy of their notes for the trial. But I don't know enough to be sure, and whether this gives them advanced warning that you're planning to put up a fight instead of the usual routines.

[xxaarraa]

Did you say how fast you thought you were going during the stop? If so, this is usually recorded on the officer's carbon copy of the ticket for reference in court. This includes things like "I know I was going too fast". I think this would usually get brought up during the hearing, but I don't think they have to. Could dig it up for the court case.

I think you can request a copy of their notes for the trial. But I don't know enough to be sure, and whether this gives them advanced warning that you're planning to put up a fight instead of the usual routines.

Nope, I know enough to never admit or speculate as to my own speed. I also never say I was in a hurry, or headed somewhere quick, etc.

If the judge ever asks me what I was doing, I'll remember to say 55, good to know.

For an 80 on a 55, first speeding ticket in MA, I am not going to get a lawyer etc. I am going to cross my fingers and hope the officer doesn't show on trial date. If he shows, I'll hope for some leniency, or worst, take the hit, after having delayed it 3 months already by then.

It was interesting that the magistrate as well as the prosecutor today were not happy at all when I said I thought I was being singled out for driving a sporty car. They were cool guys, but that cleraly pressed the wrong button. Wonder if I should go easy on that angle with the judge.

[nhbubba]

Magistrate (he's laughing by now): OK you seem like a straight up guy (I had my best brooks brothers suit on, tie) I'm finding you responsible for 70 on a 55 (ticket was 80 on 55).

Got to love the steadfast consistency by which our traffic laws are applied.

Sorry about your ticket. The $50 for your day in court (innocent or not) is extra dumb.

[tls25rs]

From what i have experienced with living in multiple states etc. Cops can only see as far back as the date you got a license in their state. If they want to dig deeper, they have to call it in. At least that's what I was told by a MA cop that pulled me over and asked how my record was.

This may be true, my experience and comment came from a long conversation I had with a officer under pleasant circumstances one evening. He was an officer in MA and I have only ever held a license in MA so you may in fact be correct where changing states doesn't make it as easy to see your full driving history. I do know that in the early 90's there was definitely a push to get it so that your driving record showed up across state lines, no idea if it ever made it through though.

[nhbubba]

I have definitely got the impression that MA police can see every detail of my NH license history.

[TheIglu]

It was interesting that the magistrate as well as the prosecutor today were not happy at all when I said I thought I was being singled out for driving a sporty car. They were cool guys, but that cleraly pressed the wrong button. Wonder if I should go easy on that angle with the judge.

I wouldn't ever try to theorize what the cop was thinking in court. That's for the other side of the courtroom to say out loud, not you.

[aldend123]

It was interesting that the magistrate as well as the prosecutor today were not happy at all when I said I thought I was being singled out for driving a sporty car. They were cool guys, but that cleraly pressed the wrong button. Wonder if I should go easy on that angle with the judge.

Does it really matter? Assuming the officer thought you were speeding, minivan or lamborghini, they thought you were breaking the law. At the very least, one might assume a sporty car shows intent in the same way that a radar detector does. I'm not saying its right. But I'm saying that might be "common sense" in their mind. I don't see how a judge is going to care if you thought the officer profiled your vehicle when picking targets from a highway full of cars.

I'd focus on the estimation, and how unreliable that could be. Especially if the officer is considering another vehicle for speeding at the same time.

[cdovego]

I went the same route as you. Got offered a "plea deal" on something I was not responsible for, politely declined and ponied up the $50. Roll of the dice in August for both of us - good luck to you!

[xxaarraa]

Does it really matter? Assuming the officer thought you were speeding, minivan or lamborghini, they thought you were breaking the law. At the very least, one might assume a sporty car shows intent in the same way that a radar detector does. I'm not saying its right. But I'm saying that might be "common sense" in their mind. I don't see how a judge is going to care if you thought the officer profiled your vehicle when picking targets from a highway full of cars.

I'd focus on the estimation, and how unreliable that could be. Especially if the officer is considering another vehicle for speeding at the same time.

It does matter.

Maybe not legally, but morally. The law should apply equally to everyone, and not selectively, based on a persons taste in cars and/or implied success. Same exact moral argument as any sort of profiling - racial, sexual, age based, etc.

Now if I'm going to request paperwork that cops car was recently calibrated and maintained, am I required to play that hand beforehand? Or just politely ask during trial?

[G21forme]

Can you file a motion for continuance in order to file a motion for discovery of the officers magical speed reading ability. I'm not a lawyer but I've had tickets I already paid refunded in court from filling motions, I literally paid the ticket and said fuck that and filed a motion. The prosecutor had ten days to respond and he didn't, long story short the clerk had to pay me and it was awesome.

Eta just read the previous post, you need to file a motion for discovery to obtain training certs of the officer, calibration records of the radar/laser gun, speedo of the cruiser etc beforehand. That's why you should ask for a continuance, file a motion for discover on the education this officer
has in estimating speed. Not a lawyer simply saying what I would do and what has worked when thier case had some holes in it on thier side in my past.

[xxaarraa]

Can you file a motion for continuance in order to file a motion for discovery of the officers magical speed reading ability. I'm not a lawyer but I've had tickets I already paid refunded in court from filling motions, I literally paid the ticket and said fuck that and filed a motion. The prosecutor had ten days to respond and he didn't, long story short the clerk had to pay me and it was awesome.

Eta just read the previous post, you need to file a motion for discovery to obtain training certs of the officer, calibration records of the radar/laser gun, speedo of the cruiser etc beforehand. That's why you should ask for a continuance, file a motion for discover on the education this officer
has in estimating speed. Not a lawyer simply saying what I would do and what has worked when thier case had some holes in it on thier side in my past.

That makes sense. But seems like a catch-22. If I file a motion for discovery, I pretty much safely eliminate the possibility that he won't show and my case will be dismissed. If I just keep quiet and go to trial and he does show, I can't ask for his certs and paperwork at that time? Anyone know?

[G21forme]

Look into it, if you want his certs you must file a motion iirc if you want to see them at your trial . You are correct though it does put you on the cop's and pa's radar but there is a chance the pa doesn't see the motion or forgets about it (happened to me) and that's as good as a dismissal Just a suggestion bud, I wish you luck.

[tsorfas]

You can go the PD from where the trooper is and ask for calibration records btw. If they don't provide them the court will likely dismiss the ticket. But you have to prove that you tried to obtain them.

[e30addict]

I love this thread. Debate all you want on strategy. It's traffic court and the reality is that it is a crap shoot. There is no real right, wrong or burden of proof in reality.

I've had cops perjure themselves on the stand and I've had tied them all up in their testimony and proved that what they claimed was inconsistent and mathematically impossible. Didn't matter. GUILTY!

I've also been popped for something I actually did, made up some B.S. story and the judge threw everything out.

Moral of all this? Just fight it. You might win, you might not. Everything else doesn't really matter in traffic court. Biggest dog and pony show (errr money grab) out there.

[Manny]

Wirelessly posted

You can go the PD from where the trooper is and ask for calibration records btw. If they don't provide them the court will likely dismiss the ticket. But you have to prove that you tried to obtain them.

Estimation calibration?

[tsorfas]

My bad. I was thinking radar. But hey if the calibration records are too old or missing it's still another tool that can be used against the officers skills and knowledge per say. Your job is to show in any way possible that a) you weren't speeding b) the officer did not do his job right.

I have been to court over 50 times in the past 8 years for various traffic offenses. Not once iv lost an estimate charge. Even one that was 100 on 55.

[Ductard]

Defense:

"Your honor, my car was modified down to 250cc's by the technicians at NYST and is incapable of going 80mph. Fact!"

[tsorfas]

I love this thread. Debate all you want on strategy. It's traffic court and the reality is that it is a crap shoot. There is no real right, wrong or burden of proof in reality.

I've had cops perjure themselves on the stand and I've had tied them all up in their testimony and proved that what they claimed was inconsistent and mathematically impossible. Didn't matter. GUILTY!

I've also been popped for something I actually did, made up some B.S. story and the judge threw everything out.

Moral of all this? Just fight it. You might win, you might not. Everything else doesn't really matter in traffic court. Biggest dog and pony show (errr money grab) out there.

Realest post.

BUT it's better to be prepared and have at least a decent battle
Rather than go in with your pants down and some KY and hope you don't get assfucked

[xxaarraa]

Defense:

"Your honor, my car was modified down to 250cc's by the technicians at NYST and is incapable of going 80mph. Fact!"

Brilliant! I'll take the "250 modified" sticker with me.

[Garandman]

MSP testify well and are usually credible. Local LEO range from credible to "WTF?"

I'm all for going through the process: in fact we give employees paid time off to fight tickets as most of them are road taxes, not safety enforcement.

But I believe your testimony that you did not know your speed will come back to haunt you.

What did he mark for traffic conditions on the ticket? I got a ticket a long time ago for following an MSP cruiser in Friday afternoon traffic. He marked the ticket "Light traffic" and the Magistrate conceded that 4:30pm on a Friday afternoon on 128 in Waltham is anything but light.

[loudbeard]

Got popped late last night on my S3 by a sneaky trooper way off the shoulder running dark. Initial laser had me at 92, which was the high end, and got a few more around 85 +/-. I had been trying to cruise around 85, empty interstate. Trooper was really nice and showed some genuine concern over things like old ladies taking me out on a lane change and deer crossing the Pike. He wrote me for 80 in a 65 and issues minimum fine, definitely could have been a dick if he wanted to. Guy actually knew the difference between squids and geared up sport riders which gave me a chuckle. He noted (bottom right) on the ticket "did smile" and "polite." Think that gets me any leniency in court?

[aldend123]

He noted (bottom right) on the ticket "did smile" and "polite." Think that gets me any leniency in court?

I was in a court room when another person was at bat, and the judge asked the officer if the person was respectful. The officer replied that they were, and it seemed to help the situation. I don't remember the final result, I just remember the judge was happy to hear about the person's good demeanor.

[Garrett]

Get a lawyer.