So, what's the deal with track days anyhow?

[taxonomy]

I've decided that this is the year my riding will improve a lot.

I bought a bike that I think I can learn to go fast/smooth on without worrying much breaking it loose in corners. It's a super clean 2001 SV650.

I singed up for a Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic and a practice day.

I'll be taking my 4th? MSF ERC.

I am reading books like Twist of the Wrist and Total Control.

I am making time to ride with good riders, in my case the Yankee Beemers.

But what's the deal with Track Days? I corner watched a couple of sessions way back. Is instruction offered at these things? Is Lean Angle Performance School a School?

Track days are not cheap and they generally occur on week days from what I can tell. So, given how far I am from NIHS that's a lot of commitment. I know there are instructors, but do they instruct?

I think going to and just riding around with my old bad habits isn't going to improve things any so, what gives with track days? I can understand a school improving my riding, and I can see where riding on a track would be fun but how's it going to make me a better rider?

A vacation day and more than a couple hundred bucks plus the hassle of getting there is considerable. What's the payback?

[ChR1s]

If you've not done one, just do it. Everyone should try it at least once.

Tony has really smoothed out his show now, and it's professionally run event. You can't go wrong.


Payback? Have someone snap some pics of your mug before and after your first session. The results should be immediately evident.

[DucDave]

Wow...are you sure you want to be a member of NESR??? This may be one of the most well thought out posts of the year! Reads like a list I might have posted up on things a rider should do to improve. (Back when I was still concerned with helping others avoid my mistakes and become a better rider. Now I don't give a fig...wear what you want, ride how you want!)

Great choice for a bike. Lee Parks will help with your skills. MSF refreshers are always good. The books you chose are good too. I haven't ridden with the Yankee Beemers but I don't recall ever reading 'Squid, cops, and Yankee Beemers' in the same sentence!

Your reservations about track days are well placed. There is one more you should be aware of. You take a track day and you may as well kiss all your disposable income good bye! You WILL learn more about the evelope of you and your bike in a safe environement than you can learn on the street but most of all you will have more freekin' fun than you can imagine. And you will want to do it again and again...in spite of the cost and how far the track is from where you live. (Indeed - NHMS will seem close if you get the bug bad enough to travel to other facilities which are found far and wide!)

Most of the track days, (Lean Angle Included), included classroom training and 'control riders' on the track to help you improve. But most are not actual 'schools'. In fact, the 'schools' I am aware of - Penguin and Cornerspeed - are certified by race sanctionaing bodys to issue certificates allowing the graduate to race.

I would expect this thread to be long...you'll get lots of suggestions. Most good...some dumb...a lot tongue in cheek...and a lot of congratulations!

(Eventually it will deteriorate into discussions about either farting/feces or vaginas/sex. Take whats offered before that happens!!!)

Congrats again on your excellent choice of rides and the well thought out question!

[Ken C]

Things have changed a lot since the days when you watched track day sessions, Adam. Nowadays, many track day organizations offer instruction, with classroom sessions and some on-track instruction.

However, track days aren't a full-fledged school, like Cal Superbike or STAR and Instruction is voluntary. Track days provide a lot of track time for participants to ride to their heart's content, as well as offering some instruction.

As far as value per dollar/vacation time goes, I'll let others chime in on that. All I know is what people say about it's great value as a learning tool and as a way to have a boatload of fun.

edit: I deleted most of the Tony's Track Day information after I realized this was in the "General MC" forum. I'll post what's new at Tony's in the Tony's Track Day forum.

[kermita]

Your reservations about track days are well placed. There is one more you should be aware of. You take a track day and you may as well kiss all your disposable income good bye! You WILL learn more about the evelope of you and your bike in a safe environement than you can learn on the street but most of all you will have more freekin' fun than you can imagine. And you will want to do it again and again...in spite of the cost and how far the track is from where you live. (Indeed - NHMS will seem close if you get the bug bad enough to travel to other facilities which are found far and wide!)

+1

A group of us took a 26 hour round trip to VIR last month for 2 track days. Track days are an addiction....trust me.

So...should you do a track day?

The way I look at it, if you've ever had an interest in riding on the track then I would highly recommend checking it out. You will get more than your moneys-worth in track time. You'll find that you're exhausted at the end of the day and may even skip the last session because of it.

On the other hand, if you have no interest in the track and are more than happy with riding on the street (and ride appropriately ie no knee down in turns racer-boy type of street riding) then the cost and commitment of a track day may be more than you are willing to pay.

I'd just say that if you feel that you are pushing your limits on the street (or want to) then get yourself to the track where you can test those limits within a safe(r) and controlled environment.

[taxonomy]

At this point I am mostly interested in weeding out all the little errors in my riding. It's really not about speed for me right now, but way more about consistency.

I used to swim laps a lot. I took some lessons at one point and it was amazing how many things the lessons cleared up for me.

For now I am just worried about getting everything wired up for very solid consistency, so that cornering becomes a step by step process and I have thought everything through, with the goal of it becoming transparent.

When I take time to ride critically I can see errors but I am not moving at a pace where I feel like I'm objectionable in any way. I could go faster if I didn't pay attention to what I am doing and sank back into my comfortable bad habits.

I don't want people to get the idea that I am some kind of rolling mess out there. I am a good rider, I just want to be better. It would be interesting to see where I fall in ability. A track day would be useful for knowing how fast I would go if I could. On group street rides I try and take it easy.


I think I need to move through this evaluation process before a track day would have the most value.

I just started a new job and, so, don't have a lot of vacation time. That's the real problem for me with track days. The other thing is that I would guess that the kit and kaboodle would be pushing $500 if you did a single day. It ain't free. So, I want to get what I can out of it.

Thanks to those that have replied.

[SVRACER01]

the goal of a trackday (IMO) is to have fun, while at the same time learning and improving your skills. The BEST thing i ever learned by doing trackdays is "DONT PANIC!" that alone will save you on the street...
you could very easily go out in the "slow" group for a couple of sessions and be just fine. Doing this may also give you an idea of what doesnt feel right.
grab an instructor, tell them you want them to follow you for a session. they gladly will, and while youre out there they will follow and then make you follow then follow again. at the end (or even during) the session they will tell you what they see. "youre not setting up early enough for T6", "T6 and T7 are 1 turn" and you can express things like "i cant quite get T3" and "where do i go in T10?" everything will be covered and by the end of the day you have a list of things to work on next time...there will be a next time. some of it may be things you can do on the street. body position for one. i might look like a retard taking an exit ramp with my butt square in the seat and my head by the mirror looking waaay into the turn...but thats how it becomes 2nd nature on the track.
as for scheduling. most of TTD are on a monday and tuesday after a race weekend, so you can come up and watch the races and pick up some pointers and then do a TTD...3 or day weekend right there
Do it. youll learn stuff. youll like it.

[Doc]

+1 to all this. Listen to these guys. When I first started in 2006 they were a wealth of information.

Soounds like you want more instruction than a track day is really meant to give. Maybe think about the Penguin school or one of the other schools that come to the area.

Where are you taking the Lee Parks? I want to do that.

[Nix]

If you've not done one, just do it. Everyone should try it at least once.

"I'm yo' Pushaman..." We need a "this is your brain...this is your brain on a track day" marketing effort.

[taxonomy]

Where are you taking the Lee Parks? I want to do that.

Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic

I am doing the ARC 1 on the 10th of May in Troy NY. You can see all the classes though. I am pretty excited about it.

I think Tony's Track Days have evolved since I have seen them. Monday and Tuesday work lousy with my schedule but I could try and make it work. The appeal of a race weekend is good. I think the GF would like that. She likes all that motorcycle stuff.

There's a lot of appeal of having feedback for riding at speed, which is something I can't really get in a parking lot class. So, anyhow, since this is the year that it falls into place for me I should try and get to a trackday.

A

[Doc]

I am definately hittng up an ARC course thie year.

[OreoGaborio]

"So, what's the deal with track days anyhow?!?!"

[Paul_E_D]

Well, from my perspective, you can ride all you life on the street, or in the woods, and not learn as much as you could in one or two days on a track. I suspect that you already know what should be done in a corner, Adam. A track allows you to try to perfaect that technique. It allows you to try it again and again in the same corners. The advantage is that you can accurately compare the results of everything you try. No instructor needed.

However, add in some helpful feedback, and your learning can be accelerated. The amount of info and feedback available at TTDs these days is enough to make an expert level rider/racer out of you. BUT, we can't magically impart it on anyone. It's the repetition of good technique that makes a great rider.

[OreoGaborio]

Well, from my perspective, you can ride all you life on the street, or in the woods, and not learn as much as you could in one or two days on a track. I suspect that you already know what should be done in a corner, Adam. A track allows you to try to perfect that technique. It allows you to try it again and again in the same corners. The advantage is that you can accurately compare the results of everything you try. No instructor needed.

However, add in some helpful feedback, and your learning can be accelerated. The amount of info and feedback available at TTDs these days is enough to make an expert level rider/racer out of you. BUT, we can't magically impart it on anyone. It's the repetition of good technique that makes a great rider.

well said, Paul.

[Ken C]

Track days can be different things to different people, which is the beauty of a track day versus a track school. Some riders simply want to ride, ride, ride and not think much about their skills. Others are hungry for information so they can improve. Most are somewhere in between, with the majority favoring learning rather than just riding.

After eight or so years an a track day instructor, I can tell you that the trend is moving more toward attendees wanting to learn. This is partly due to the expanded offerings in instruction and partly becasue the word is out that track days are a great place to learn.

TTD offers rather deep level-appropriate instruction throughout the day, but it's purely voluntary (aside from the new riders group). So, those who just want to ride can do so while those who want to learn have the opportunity.

[wingerdor]

The 2 day TTD was awesome. I spent the first day absorbing all the information and learning the track and the turn points, etc. I went to all the classroom sessions in between times. Then after the first day we did a track walk. (AWESOME) and then did some mini seminars over some brewskies. The second day was totally different. We arrived much later than the first day (YEAH!) and pretty much jumped on the bikes and spent the day putting all we learned on Day 1 and getting faster and riding the line better and pushing harder.

The 2 day event was perfect. I actually sat out one session each day after lunch and rested and went to watch the track from the fence.

[taxonomy]

The 2 day TTD was awesome. I spent the first day absorbing all the information and learning the track and the turn points, etc. I went to all the classroom sessions in between times. Then after the first day we did a track walk. (AWESOME) and then did some mini seminars over some brewskies. The second day was totally different. We arrived much later than the first day (YEAH!) and pretty much jumped on the bikes and spent the day putting all we learned on Day 1 and getting faster and riding the line better and pushing harder.

The 2 day event was perfect. I actually sat out one session each day after lunch and rested and went to watch the track from the fence.

This makes track days seem really worthwhile. I am very much on the I want to learn end of things. Paul, who has ridden with me some back in the day knows I know how to corner.

The thing is I am trying to move my skills to the next level. I'm well off the floor now and taking a good look at my riding to see where it can be improved. Believe me, when I look hard at it I can see holes.

It sounds like, for me, a track day may be about right. I have the Lee Parks ARC in May, an ERC in June or July and a Track day in July later.

That sounds like a recipe for being better rider come this fall.

A~

[wingerdor]

Man, you are on the right track for sure (pun might have been intended)!
It sounds like you are going about this systematically, but remember to keep it positive. Many folks decide to learn, but when they don't learn what they expect to learn they get bummed. Take "The Worlds Greatest Negotiator" - Herb Cohen's Attitude..." I care...but not that much." (Care enough to give it your all, but if things don't work, don't get upset about it, look at it as a learning experience that showed you one more way how not to do it.)
You are off to an awesome year grasshopper!