Party (Sat - Aug 9th)

[naked-daytrader]

Regardless, either tackle him, let the air out of his tires, pull the wires off his spark plugs, theres a million other things that someone can do to stop a drunk driver. Calling the cops is just no good. Getting popped for D+D is not a small matter. It's very time consuming and expensive. What if he got pulled over due to you folks? He loses his license automatically for 30 days and a mandatory 6 months if you refuse the breathlyzer...what if he now cant drive to work or take care of family etc etc. I just think there's other better ways this situation could of been handled. Calling the cops is a cop out(no pun intended), someone just didnt want to deal with a confrontational drunk guy and that's what i find lame. Anyone can be handled, it just takes effort. Calling the popo doesn't take effort and is just washing your hands of the situation.

[cbr_chick_nh]

Regardless, either tackle him, let the air out of his tires, pull the wires off his spark plugs, theres a million other things that someone can do to stop a drunk driver. Calling the cops is just no good. Getting popped for D+D is not a small matter. It's very time consuming and expensive. What if he got pulled over due to you folks? He loses his license automatically for 30 days and a mandatory 6 months if you refuse the breathlyzer...what if he now cant drive to work or take care of family etc etc. I just think there's other better ways this situation could of been handled. Calling the cops is a cop out(no pun intended), someone just didnt want to deal with a confrontational drunk guy and that's what i find lame. Anyone can be handled, it just takes effort. Calling the popo doesn't take effort and is just washing your hands of the situation.

You're right ... However, I can tell you, if he ended up getting pulled over - it had nothing to do with us (seriously...)

[BCT748]

Maybe he is a better driver when he is drunk

:pot:stir:

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Maybe he is a better driver when he is drunk

:pot:stir:

you shit stirring son of a bitch

daytrader, even after all these years I still love you - Happy Manniversary Bro!

[kamikaze]

He wasn't a friend, he was some random dude that skipped the ride and showed for the party. He was obnoxious and plastered all night. We wouldn't have let him drink as much had we known he wasn't staying. As a home owner, you're liable if you let someone leave your house intoxicated. You can be charged both in criminal and civil court.

I'll admit to having driven drunk, but not completely smashed. He couldn't even stand up. The guy was smashed when I left and I would have done the same thing. I get the whole 'look out for your buddies' thing, but you have to draw a line in the sand.

Lesson learned: Get everyone's keys at the beginning of the night. That's what I do. You can walk anywhere you want, but you're not driving away.

+1 to that. We would not be having a debate right now if something unfortunate had happened and he had got into an accident or something.

What if he had got into an accident and Jenna (everyone remaining at the party supported her) had not called the cops? By calling the cops not only did she save her liability but tried to make sure that guy and other on the road were safe.

Anyone who thinks calling the cops was BS, what would you have said if there WAS an accident? It was like an insurance for sorta everyone!

[G21forme]

Having been there I can honestly say that many tried to stop him and reason with him unfortunately he became combative and I'm not taking a kick in the teeth trying to let the air out of the tires of some dude who is already trying to fight everyone. Would I feel bad if he got pulled specifically because of us? Not at all, if he was 5 min down the road it might have been a different story but nh to RI! I'd rather he have a dui over a toe tag or a vehicular manslaughter charge. But steph nailed it, I would not want Jenna to be responsible for his actions as she certainly would have had she not made the call.

[naked-daytrader]

[QUOTE=kamikaze;563588 What if he had got into an accident and Jenna (everyone remaining at the party supported her) had not called the cops? By calling the cops not only did she save her liability but tried to make sure that guy and other on the road were safe.

Anyone who thinks calling the cops was BS, what would you have said if there WAS an accident? It was like an insurance for sorta everyone![/QUOTE]



Again, IT DOES NOT MATTER! She didn't save her liability at all! If he had gotten into an accident and killed himself or someone else , regardless if she called the police, she'd still be at fault...period end of story. His family can sue her, the other victims family could sue...all because he was drinking at her house. That's why when you have a party you can't let people leave when their drunk because you're at fault. This goes back to me saying you do whatever it takes to keep the person there. Calling the cops = hand washing


I'm not saying Jenna is a bad person by any means, I don't even know her. You just have to be careful in these situations, especailly when you invite people over your house that you've never met before.

[BCT748]

you shit stirring son of a bitch

Well I drive like a 90 year old woman after I have a couple. Different story after I've had a few more. That is until I realized that IHOP at 2am is a great way to sober up before going anywhere.

[ThisBitch]

Again, IT DOES NOT MATTER! She didn't save her liability at all! If he had gotten into an accident and killed himself or someone else , regardless if she called the police, she'd still be at fault...period end of story. His family can sue her, the other victims family could sue...all because he was drinking at her house. That's why when you have a party you can't let people leave when their drunk because you're at fault. This goes back to me saying you do whatever it takes to keep the person there. Calling the cops = hand washing


I'm not saying Jenna is a bad person by any means, I don't even know her. You just have to be careful in these situations, especailly when you invite people over your house that you've never met before.

Yeah... you're wrong. Trying to stop him and calling the police absolves her of negligence, which is what would be the primary issue in a civil trial. But this is a stupid argument, so I'm going to stfu about it now and hope everyone else follows suit.

[naked-daytrader]

Yeah... you're wrong. Trying to stop him and calling the police absolves her of negligence, which is what would be the primary issue in a civil trial. But this is a stupid argument, so I'm going to stfu about it now and hope everyone else follows suit.

It may be a dumb argument but just because she called the police absolutely does not absolve her of negligence.....stick to trading options because law isn't your strong suit..

[ThisBitch]

It may be a dumb argument but just because she called the police absolutely does not absolve her of negligence.....stick to trading options because law isn't your strong suit..

Actually... it is, in this case at least. I was faced with the same situation a few years ago, I called my mom and that's what she advised me to do. I think she'd know better than the rest of us.

[G21forme]

Are there any Lawyers that practice in the state of New Hampshire on here? I was under the impression that making any and all reasonable attempts to prevent someone from driving while intoxicated not to mention notifying the local police would be enough to get you off the hook? Just curious as this isn't the first I have seen such a thing and can imagine it won't be the last.

[naked-daytrader]

Actually... it is, in this case at least. I was faced with the same situation a few years ago, I called my mom and that's what she advised me to do. I think she'd know better than the rest of us.

It's called "Social Host Responsibility" and it is a law in Mass. I don't what your mother does for a living but i'm sure it's not prosecuting or enforcing the social host law.




The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, for instance, recognizes the liability of a social host for injuries caused by an intoxicated guest. In McGuigan vs. New England Telephone, the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts stated that it would recognize liability where alcohol is served to a guest who the host either knows or should know is intoxicated.


It's also good in New Hampshire as well...



This court is persuaded by
Judge Conboy's analysis in Corrine Dunn v. Ralph Dutton and Paula
Dutton, 00-C-465 (Hillsborough Cty. Super.Ct., Northern District,
April 30, 2001) in which she concluded that innocent third parties
need only prove negligence in cases alleging social host
liability.

[ThisBitch]

Are there any Lawyers that practice in the state of New Hampshire on here? I was under the impression that making any and all reasonable attempts to prevent someone from driving while intoxicated not to mention notifying the local police would be enough to get you off the hook? Just curious as this isn't the first I have seen such a thing and can imagine it won't be the last.

Well... my previous post... my mom's a prosecutor in NH.

[ThisBitch]

From Thompson v McClure:

The defendants first argue that the Supreme Court's decision
in Hickinbotham v. Burke, 140 N.H. 28 (1995) requires the
plaintiffs to prove that the defendants acted recklessly, rather
than negligently, when they permitted Ms. Morgan to consume
alcohol at their home. The plaintiffs object, stating the
Hickinbotham standard does not apply because the plaintiffs here
are innocent third parties and not guests or employees who became
intoxicated at the defendants' home. This court is persuaded by
Judge Conboy's analysis in Corrine Dunn v. Ralph Dutton and Paula
Dutton, 00-C-465 (Hillsborough Cty. Super.Ct., Northern District,
April 30, 2001) in which she concluded that innocent third parties
need only prove negligence in cases alleging social host
liability.

My mom says that they have to prove that you were aware of and consciously disregarded the risk associate with a behavior for you to be found civilly liable.

[naked-daytrader]

From Thompson v McClure:

The defendants first argue that the Supreme Court's decision
in Hickinbotham v. Burke, 140 N.H. 28 (1995) requires the
plaintiffs to prove that the defendants acted recklessly, rather
than negligently, when they permitted Ms. Morgan to consume
alcohol at their home. The plaintiffs object, stating the
Hickinbotham standard does not apply because the plaintiffs here
are innocent third parties and not guests or employees who became
intoxicated at the defendants' home. This court is persuaded by
Judge Conboy's analysis in Corrine Dunn v. Ralph Dutton and Paula
Dutton, 00-C-465 (Hillsborough Cty. Super.Ct., Northern District,
April 30, 2001) in which she concluded that innocent third parties
need only prove negligence in cases alleging social host
liability.

Jackie, not to beat a dead horse but the whole point is it's a big shit storm for a homeowner throwing a party and letting a drunk driver leave. Regardless if they are "FOUND" liable or not. It's going to cost her time and a whole hell of alot of money. Social host responsibilty is a valid law. It may be a bit different in NH (but I don't think it really is) than in MA, but it's still valid and something to think about. I don't see how, in legal terms, calling the police after the fact is going to absolve her of anything.

[ThisBitch]

Jackie, not to beat a dead horse but the whole point is it's a big shit storm for a homeowner throwing a party and letting a drunk driver leave. Regardless if they are "FOUND" liable or not. It's going to cost her time and a whole hell of alot of money. Social host responsibilty is a valid law. It may be a bit different in NH (but I don't think it really is) than in MA, but it's still valid and something to think about. I don't see how, in legal terms, calling the police after the fact is going to absolve her of anything.

because it proves that you aren't negligent. I understand that it would be a shit storm, but if you've done everything else you can, its the best way to cover your ass when someone is about to drive 150 miles completely trashed. Not all of us are huge ex-Marines and when a combative drunk decides he wants to leave, there's not a lot you can do to stop it.

[naked-daytrader]

AND.................. Boy did we take this thread in a different direction.

[ThisBitch]

I'd also add that being found negligent will run you about $150 - 500k, so if a simple phone call to the cops means $5k in lawyer's fees vs losing my house, car, bankruptcy, etc... I'm gonna do it.

[/WASTINGTIMEONTHISBULLSHIT]

[kamikaze]

My former landlord is a judge in Worcester, MA court. State Laws might be different between NH and MA. I just called him to clarify this.

So here it is after I talked to him: He said that she definitely did the right thing. If you made all possible efforts to stop somebody from going but they still leave, calling the cops certainly helps. Now lets not get into an argument again whether we should have wrestled him for not letting him go or not. Considering the situation that he left, it was the right thing to do!

How much force can you actually use to get somebody to behave? I have seen a friend being punched square in the face by a drunk guy at a college party. It is not a good situation even when both parties involved are great friends! I would not like to be hit by some random guy who I saw just at the party.

Jackie's suggestion of keeping everyone's keys away at the start is a good option though.

[naked-daytrader]

because it proves that you aren't negligent. I understand that it would be a shit storm, but if you've done everything else you can, its the best way to cover your ass when someone is about to drive 150 miles completely trashed. Not all of us are huge ex-Marines and when a combative drunk decides he wants to leave, there's not a lot you can do to stop it.

See, your forgetting one thing. You're looking at it from one side. You just assume because she called the police she's innocent. She and her lawyers would have to prove that to a jury. How is she innocent if she kept serving him alcohol or kept letting him drink till the point that he was falling down drunk? A lawyer would have a field day with that and all the pictures of a fridge full of beer I'm sure.
Being a big bad Marine (your words) has nothing to do with it. Let the air out of his damn tires, even a delicate little flower like yourself could handle that while another person distracts him...Calling the cops doesn't prove anything in a court of law with people all lawyered up. You say that so matter of factly.

[kamikaze]

Now back to making stupid comments over the photographs!

[Cmorsch]

See, your forgetting one thing. You're looking at it from one side. You just assume because she called the police she's innocent. She and her lawyers would have to prove that to a jury. How is she innocent if she kept serving him alcohol or kept letting him drink till the point that he was falling down drunk? A lawyer would have a field day with that and all the pictures of a fridge full of beer I'm sure.
Being a big bad Marine (your words) has nothing to do with it. Let the air out of his damn tires, even a delicate little flower like yourself could handle that while another person distracts him...Calling the cops doesn't prove anything in a court of law with people all lawyered up. You say that so matter of factly.

And deal with the possibility of destruction of private property, cause the second you do that your now on the hook for any damage that may be caused by it. No thank you.

[ThisBitch]

See, your forgetting one thing. You're looking at it from one side. You just assume because she called the police she's innocent. She and her lawyers would have to prove that to a jury. How is she innocent if she kept serving him alcohol or kept letting him drink till the point that he was falling down drunk? A lawyer would have a field day with that and all the pictures of a fridge full of beer I'm sure.
Being a big bad Marine (your words) has nothing to do with it. Let the air out of his damn tires, even a delicate little flower like yourself could handle that while another person distracts him...Calling the cops doesn't prove anything in a court of law with people all lawyered up. You say that so matter of factly.

Well we'll be sure to invite you to all the parties from now on so you can act as bouncer/prison guard.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Well we'll be sure to invite you to all the parties from now on so you can act as bouncer/prison guard.

if mark was there, then it would have been an official party - until that time its only a mixer