T3 and T4 Help

[csmutty]

I am having trouble with the apex point in T4, which is really killing my drive out of the corner. I have seen people go wider in T3, but I feel like that would hinder my ability to get to the apex of 4 (next to the curb). Here is a video from the last weekend if that helps at all.

[lrrs313]

Motard shouldn't be near the curb in 4. Motard's apex in 4 is the first seam between paving passes. And you should be WFO waaaaaaaaaay before you get even with the apex cone for T4.

[csmutty]

Motard shouldn't be near the curb in 4. Motard's apex in 4 is the first seam between paving passes. And you should be WFO waaaaaaaaaay before you get even with the apex cone for T4.

I think my problem is that I would go too wide in 4 and have to roll off the throttle to make it. So I should apex the corner later then?

[lrrs313]

Just watched the video (first 3 laps). Hard to see your turn in point exactly, but line looked pretty good. Exit of 4 you should be getting pretty close to the left edge of the track. If you feel like you're going to run it wide, leave the damn thing on it's side a little longer. Don't roll off, it's a motard. The throttle should only have 2 positions -- WFO and off.

EDIT -- got any video from a front fender viewpoint? It's a lot easier to see your line from there. And I can tell you a lot more about how to go faster, if you want.

[csmutty]

Just watched the video (first 3 laps). Hard to see your turn in point exactly, but line looked pretty good. Exit of 4 you should be getting pretty close to the left edge of the track. If you feel like you're going to run it wide, leave the damn thing on it's side a little longer. Don't roll off, it's a motard. The throttle should only have 2 positions -- WFO and off.

EDIT -- got any video from a front fender viewpoint? It's a lot easier to see your line from there. And I can tell you a lot more about how to go faster, if you want.

I don't have any from the front fender except from the EX500. Not sure that will help too much

[lrrs313]

I don't have any from the front fender except from the EX500. Not sure that will help too much

I don't need to see video of you crashing.....

I'll just wait until race season starts; come find me down in T1 and I'll try to give you some advice. I have a track map with pretty good notes on lines, reference points, etc. from when I took the 2 day pro school that I think is in the race trailer. Some really good info on there that's motard specific.

[jcbell1007]

my .02

seems like you aren't getting off the tard as much when going through T3 - T4. I know that I have to make a conscious effort to get off the seat more on the right handers, than the left hand turns. In essence this gives me the lean angle I need for those turns and you can hopefully get a better drive.

thats my uneducated opinion though. i know there's faster more knowledgable guys out there who could offer more insight.

[KB]

There is more room through there than you think. It's a tough corner to get through and keep up speed.

What helped me was a track walk. You will be surprised what 3 inches can make in the difference in track surface.

Coming into 3 you need to have your bikes tires almost on the white line. There is about a million less bumps than 3 inches off the white line. this line will get the bike, and you set up sooner and smoother and you'll be further out on the track to turn in making your arc to 4 more of a striaight shot to the dirt and the divot that is missing from the track. Also on that motard you should be WFO as soon as that rear tire goes over the last bump grabbing 4th just about at the cone and 5th just over the hill by the flag. Oh yeah weight the pegs and get your ass off the seat for those bumps let the bike do the work. Same in 10.

DO A TRACK WALK!!!

KB

[csmutty]

Thanks guys. That is exactly the kind of advice that I was looking for. I will make a more conscious effort to get off of the bike more and I will get to the track early and do a track walk. This corner has always been hard for me and I think a big part of not getting off ofthe bike is mental.

[Danz19899]

I'm just a track day guy for now but I also have T 3/4 weak spot. For whatever reason I also suck at right handers they just feel weird to me, I haven't gotten comfy with them yet :-(. I still have to get my braking and entry points down for T3 I'm still looking for the right line. T4 I finally have a good line after scaring the crap out of myself going wide causing a LOT of sketchy tail slide . . . . the cone is now my friend lol. The dumb thing is I power out of right handers better . . . WTF lol

[SVRACER01]

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Phone won't let me watch it so I can't see the exact issue.
There are about 4 "dots" you need to connect to get through t3. You should be close to the rumble strip on the inside during entry and essentially run it out toward the outside NASCAR wall and the "beach". By this point you should have already spotted the cone on the inside of t4 and be heading for it. With a tard you'll be a little wider than a normal bike but only a foot or so. You should also be wfo by the time (or before) you get to the cone.
The bike will start tracking out toward the outside of the track in t5. I want to say that there are 2 pavement seams and you be out to the 2nd one (or furthest left) and then work your way back to the middle of the track for t6.

[tls25rs]

Have your team mate Gino take you around the track on a track walk one night and bring a notebook. We went for a social, take Katie around the track for the first time, walk one night and I was wishing that I had taken some notes from him by the time we got back. Some of the things he told me I logged in the memory banks but I know I forgot way more that would help me.

Otherwise take the Penguin Advanced School and do the same with Eric.


Oh yeah, let me know when you are doing either of these so I can tag along and do the same.

Joel

[OreoGaborio]

By the time you hit the second transition and begin going up the hill, you want to already be getting the bike pointed in the direction you want to go (twoards turn 4). This will allow you to begin reducing your lean angle which means you can open the throttle earlier and keep rolling on.

If the "L" at the end of this sentence represents the angle beween your bike & the transition seam as you begin to head up the hill, you want it to be in italics.... L

Maybe even more than that.

And in order to accomplish that w/o increasing your lean angle after the T4 apex cone, you need to get out to the beach.

[Trouble]

I'm just a track day guy for now but I also have T 3/4 weak spot. For whatever reason I also suck at right handers they just feel weird to me, I haven't gotten comfy with them yet :-(.

Sounds like you should do a day or two in Jersey. It helped my ability to turn right. Plenty of room to figure out how hard you can turn right on the decreasing radius turn...

[Pittenger5]

Twist the throttle you pussy

[KB]

Twist the throttle you pussy

Doc sucks.

KB

[Doc]

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Phone won't let me watch it so I can't see the exact issue.
There are about 4 "dots" you need to connect to get through t3. You should be close to the rumble strip on the inside during entry and essentially run it out toward the outside NASCAR wall and the "beach". By this point you should have already spotted the cone on the inside of t4 and be heading for it. With a tard you'll be a little wider than a normal bike but only a foot or so. You should also be wfo by the time (or before) you get to the cone.
The bike will start tracking out toward the outside of the track in t5. I want to say that there are 2 pavement seams and you be out to the 2nd one (or furthest left) and then work your way back to the middle of the track for t6.

Pretty much what Eric said in the Advanced school.

[OreoGaborio]

Pretty much what Eric said in the Advanced school.

I hope he says more, otherwise I'll save my money!
But yeah, that's pretty much right on.

[Doc]

I hope he says more, otherwise I'll save my money!
But yeah, that's pretty much right on.

12 pages of notes and a brain full of info, even in the rain. I need to take it again.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

12 pages of notes and a brain full of info, even in the rain. I need to take it again.

I have tons of notes, limited only by my ability to write fast enough to keep up. Also a few pages of Eric drawn pics showing what I was doing and the right line in turns, with the turn and reference points drawn in.

I'm DEF. doing it again this year.

[CBR929RE]

Sounds like you should do a day or two in Jersey. It helped my ability to turn right. Plenty of room to figure out how hard you can turn right on the decreasing radius turn...

that turn is my enemy at that track. I've tried a bunch of different lines through there but don't know which one was best.

T4 at NH is also my worst. I just can't seem to get it right.

[OreoGaborio]

that turn is my enemy at that track. I've tried a bunch of different lines through there but don't know which one was best.

I LOVE that corner (T7-8 at Thunderbolt).... stay narrow & trail brake like a sumbitch at the end where it tightenes up

Do it right and you're nearly knee down the entire way through from start to finish.

[SVRACER01]

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I can't even count how many people I passed on the outside of that turn in Nj.
I think fast way around that one though is throw it in, "stand it up" and hold it tight to the inside curbing. Just when it starts to tighten up you kinda cross the track and then flick/dump it hard right. At least I think in a race it would be the way to go. For trackdays, you can stay to the outside.

[OreoGaborio]

Well, it may not be perfect, but here's my line around Thunderbolt: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=430900557524
The first few laps I was riding behind Lauren. I wick it up a bit and do a flying lap at 5:40

When you get to 6:43, that's T7. You'll get a good idea of how little my lean angle changes through T7-8 section where it widens then tightens up. I found that was the line that all the CCS guys were taking.

[OreoGaborio]

Even better! Nate Kern
YouTube - Nate Kern N8 - CCS GTO race - Red Flagged - NJMP Thunderbolt - May 1st 2010