Brake Components Sugestions

[Eddie]

Hy Fellas,

I'm looking for some front brakes suggestions. I essentially have two problems:

1. My primary concern: It seems as though my rotors are warping during heavy braking conditions;
2. Despite several attempts by myself a couple of friends I can seem to be able to effectively bleed the front lines.


The brakes being one the most important systems in a bike, I am looking for an effective solution however I also want to do it a a cost effective manner.

Concerning the warping under heavy braking: I'm thinking about replacing the rotos. So I was hoping you would provide some suggestions.

Concerning the bleeding part of it: the brakes still do feel a little soft so I'm thinking about replacing the master cylinder with an Accosatto and replacing the bleeders on the calipers.

Please let me know your suggestions. I'd probably appreciate if you could point me out to specific deals.

Regards

[Jim]

galfer wave rotors are guaranteed for life, as long as you use their pads.
Personally, I'd stick with Honda or Performance Friction pads as they seem to be the best bang for the buck.

what year is your CBR? have you rebuilt the calipers? are you sure the rotors are warped? the guy that straightened my wheels did my rotors for $10/rotor. might want to keep that as an option as well.

as far as the bleeding, it takes FOREVER. are you using speed bleeders? i know there are mixed reviews on them, but I have had good luck with them so far.

a good rule for bleeding is to crack the bleeder at the master after a few sessions, as the air pockets may have risen up from riding.

what are your other brake issues that you're concerned about. are you getting bad fade? i'm by no means an expert, but i've dealt with brake issues on both street and track bike last year & exhausted most possibilities.

[Eddie]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for chiming in. At lighting, the front end vibrated under heavy braking on the straight away. So I corrected this by braking earlier and transferring traction to the rear wheel.

I just got off of the phone with one of my vendors. He recommended checking the rotors by placing a pen or some other static object pointing to the rotor, spinning the wheel and watching for sideways movement on the rotors. So I guess I'll try that. He also told me that he prefers the Brembos and BrakeTechs rotors over the Galfers and EBCs. Sounds expensive.

As far as bleeding is concerned, no I do not have speed bleeders. I do not know where the leak might be coming from, however, Mike and I did noticed that one of my bleeders might be leaking. So Mike torqued the bleeder however I am still unsure if that was the issue. Replacing the bleeders seem like an inexpensive solution and a good place to start diagnosing the bleeding issue.

Thanks again

[butcher bergs]

Depending on the method you are using to bleed your brakes, keep in mind that you can cause air to be pulled in around the bleeder nipple when using a vacuum bleeder. This does not always mean the brakes aren't bled regardless of seeing air bubbles.

Not sure how you figure you have warped rotors but there is no guessing, IMO. You will know for certain and you will feel vibrations during braking, be it heavy or light braking inputs, there will be no question.

For example: I have a set of rotors that seem to be absolutely fine until I try braking hard at speeds above 130 at which point the entire bike shakes. Anything under 130 for those rotors and everything seems fine.

The feel quality of your braking system can also be a direct result of the ID of the brake lines you are using. Smaller ID lines tend to give quicker brake actuation and a more stoic feel whereas larger ID lines such as OEM offer a more progressive feel.

[Jim]

for like $20, you could get a set of speed bleeders and they may make your life easier.

i wouldn't start buying new rotors yet. i'd start with looking at the brake pads and see if they're wearing evenly. worse case, send off your rotors to get straightened. warped rotors are always warped at the center carrier, and not the actual rotor that hits your brake pads.

i asked in my 1st post but never got answered. have you checked your calipers? have they been rebuilt? i've had issues where my piston seals were sticking & my pistons weren't retracting properly, causing the brake pads to drag.

[Eddie]

Thanks a lot Paul. Yes my problem does seem to me more aggravated at higher speeds. I honestly wish I could have you look at my system at your leisure - Only if you lived a little closer.

I obviously do not want to throw a lot of money into this, however, as everyone here can appreciate it is a safety concern.

To your point, yes the rotors do feel that they are warped. I mean, they are probably fine for casual street riding but that front end vibration under heavy braking is definitely making me very uncomfortable.

I'm going to inspect the rotors tonight and give you guys an update.

Thanks!!

[scubasteveRR]

for like $20, you could get a set of speed bleeders and they may make your life easier.


have you checked your calipers? have they been rebuilt? i've had issues where my piston seals were sticking & my pistons weren't retracting properly, causing the brake pads to drag.

on the speed bleeders and

I had the retracting issue with my calipers, i rebuild my brakes over the winter and added the steel lines and it cured my front end wobble when braking

[Eddie]

for like $20, you could get a set of speed bleeders and they may make your life easier.

i wouldn't start buying new rotors yet. i'd start with looking at the brake pads and see if they're wearing evenly. worse case, send off your rotors to get straightened. warped rotors are always warped at the center carrier, and not the actual rotor that hits your brake pads.

i asked in my 1st post but never got answered. have you checked your calipers? have they been rebuilt? i've had issues where my piston seals were sticking & my pistons weren't retracting properly, causing the brake pads to drag.

Thanks a lot Jim. Yes, the pads definitely need to be replaced. I like your having the rotors straightened suggestion. In the event that my rotors do need to be straightened, can you recommend a service provider?

As far as the master is concerned, I'm really not sure what's going on there. I'm not sure how to check if they have been rebuilt. Another point, despite the fact that I cleaned the pistons they do seem to not retract causing the brake pads to drag - just like you described.

[Jim]

Thanks a lot Jim. Yes, the pads definitely need to be replaced. I like your having the rotors straightened suggestion. In the event that my rotors do need to be straightened, can you recommend a service provider?

yes. call Will's Rim Repair at 864-787-1351.

As far as the master is concerned, I'm really not sure what's going on there. I'm not sure how to check if they have been rebuilt. Another point, despite the fact that I cleaned the pistons they do seem to not retract causing the brake pads to drag - just like you described.

i'm not talking about rebuilding the master. i'm talking about rebuilding the calipers. click here if you like Paul Bergs. Posts #132 - #135

[Eddie]

yes. call Will's Rim Repair at 864-787-1351.


i'm not talking about rebuilding the master. i'm talking about rebuilding the calipers. click here if you like Paul Bergs. Posts #132 - #135

Awesome post Jim. Thanks.

There is a guy in Lyn who is going to give my a set of calipers for free. It might be worth trying that. Otherwise, I'd probably rather have a trusted mechanic rebuild my own calipers. Would you recommend anyone here?

[Eddie]

Okay, so it is official I need help with my brakes. Anyone here who is qualified willing to diagnose, and help me fix my issues? I'd be willing to pay for such services. I'm located in Northborough.

[butcher bergs]

Flush those calipers before doing anything. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.

EDIT: You need to move north, Eddie.

[Jim]

I'm just glad you clicked the link, Everyone should like Paul Bergs

as far as a trusted mechanic to rebuild them, I would shoot a PM to degsy. If you gave him your calipers, him & I could probably get them done in a night. Bleeding rebuilt calipers is a PITA though, since it's nothing but air in them now.

check your brake pads and see if they wore evenly. that will be your 1st sign of warped rotors and/or caliper pistons needing new seals

[Expat]

Bleeding rebuilt calipers is a PITA though, since it's nothing but air in them now.

After you rebuild them while you still have them on the bench, you can fill them through the banjo with the bleed nipple removed or blow fluid through the bleed nipple and up through the attached line if they are being a real PITA.
Only ever had to do this once and then I didnt have a vaccum bleeder on hand.

[Jim]

After you rebuild them while you still have them on the bench, you can fill them through the banjo with the bleed nipple removed or blow fluid through the bleed nipple and up through the attached line if they are being a real PITA.

yep, that's how i'm planning on tackling my next caliper rebuild.

[CBR929RE]

flush new fluid through then bleed. trick I learned that makes bleeding incredibly easy is to take the top off the reservoir and squeeze the tube going from the cup to the master. keep squeezing it over and over and on occasion pump the lever. you'll see air bubbles coming up through the hole in the bottom of the cup as you're squeezing the tube. so much easier and cleaner than bleeding through the caliper bleeders.

[Eddie]

Flush those calipers before doing anything. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.

EDIT: You need to move north, Eddie.

Roger that brother. Conveniently located within a few minutes of Loudon.

I'm just glad you clicked the link, Everyone should like Paul Bergs

as far as a trusted mechanic to rebuild them, I would shoot a PM to degsy. If you gave him your calipers, him & I could probably get them done in a night. Bleeding rebuilt calipers is a PITA though, since it's nothing but air in them now.

check your brake pads and see if they wore evenly. that will be your 1st sign of warped rotors and/or caliper pistons needing new seals

Okay, so it is official...I checked the rotors and unfortunately to me, yes they are warped. I guess I'll call your service provider tomorrow. Ai...ai...ai...really can't go spending 600+ bucks on a set of rotors. I hope it works.

[butcher bergs]

Roger that brother. Conveniently located within a few minutes of Loudon.

House next door is only a few days away from going up for sale....

[CBR929RE]

Roger that brother. Conveniently located within a few minutes of Loudon.





Okay, so it is official...I checked the rotors and unfortunately to me, yes they are warped. I guess I'll call your service provider tomorrow. Ai...ai...ai...really can't go spending 600+ bucks on a set of rotors. I hope it works.

if you can get these to me tomorrow I'll send them with my wheels. I'll PM you.

[Degsy]

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Honda stock rotors are very variable when it comes to track riding. Some warp, some don't. Often they will warp when hot and then staigjten again when cool. I have had a couple of warranty arguments with Honda over a bad rotor. Cbr900 rc51. If it was a bent rotor carrier you would feel it all the time. Are you installing the front wheel properly to set the brake pads? Do you have a corroded section on either rotor from sitting (brake pad shaped markings on rotor)? If do, scuff the rotors with 400 grit sandpaper LIGHTLY.

[Degsy]

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Brake bleeding has nothing to do with pulsing either. Eddie, got your VM. I'll call you tomorrow.

[butcher bergs]

Eddie, Degsy's post got me thinking...if you've taken the rotors off the wheels and remounted them for whatever reason, there is a chance that something might have become lodged between the rotor carrier and the wheel surfaces. I had this happen with some dried Loctite a long time ago and thought it was a warped rotor.

[Degsy]

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I'm amazed ahowdy many folks will spend the money on suspension upgrades and then throw a set of steel lines on and say the brakes are done. If it's a track bike then a budget of $1000 should be allocated for GOOD lines, good rotors and a decent master cylinder. Also, I'm not a fan of speed bleedera. Never felt the need. I think you get more feel when you are bleeding from standard bleeders. I only crack them open enough to allow a high pressure stream of fluid to come out when I'm getting rid of the small bubbles. The rule for spongy brakes is bleed, bleed then bleed some more.

[Jim]

I just received a text from will that he'll be going on vacation in a 10 days, so you might want to ship soon if you'd like those rotors straightened.

[Eddie]

I just received a text from will that he'll be going on vacation in a 10 days, so you might want to ship soon if you'd like those rotors straightened.

Thanks Jim. I'm going to call him in a few minutes. I might ship them out with Brett's wheels.