CCS is considering rider owned transponders

[Kitt]

Oops. I meant ovrp.

http://www.OVRP.com/

in that case, yes.. thats one of the tracks. I'm riding there sat.

[Tricky Mike]

in that case, yes.. thats one of the tracks. I'm riding there sat.

is the dirt section any "dirtier?"
I haven't been since we were there...

[lrrs313]

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Track days are looking better and better to me. Way to make an already ridiculously expensive sport even more expensive! DDK, you're going to have more money spent before you sign up for a single race than some EXs cost!

[TheIglu]

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Track days are looking better and better to me. Way to make an already ridiculously expensive sport even more expensive! DDK, you're going to have more money spent before you sign up for a single race than some EXs cost!

I did 8 trackdays this year and couldn't be happier!

["Dangerous" Dan K]

DDK, you're going to have more money spent before you sign up for a single race than some EXs cost!

Trust me dude, I'm all too aware. Throw in my race fees for the 1st weekend and I'll have spent as much as my bike cost... Penski & emulators included.

[rolker]

Legend Cars ... No word on how garages/etc will be handled for those events yet.

I understood they would use the area by 1A as their paddock.

[Kitt]

is the dirt section any "dirtier?"
I haven't been since we were there...

new owners (improvement) but i will try to shoot some video this weekend.

[eboos]

When did they get new owners? I haven't been there since last summer.

[Kitt]

When did they get new owners? I haven't been there since last summer.

in the off season.

[Mr. Kurtz]

I don't think the sky is falling as badly as people are thinking.

Legends cars racing Saturday evening means more attraction for spectators for the weekend, and more money the track earns during our weekends(both good things, long term, for our race series).

My understanding is that LRRS will be selling their existing used transponders fairly cheap, so I can't see that being a major issue. As was said...this sport isn't cheap.

Those helmet removal devices are $60, and I got the impression they'd be required. I'm fine with that, if they're that useful to medical personnel, I think it's a worthy investment. We probably all preach to some of our street riding buddies about how protective gear is a worthy investment, I don't see this as much different.

As for cutting back 1 weekend, I love being at the track every two weeks in the beginning of the season, but the number of people there each event says maybe cutting a weekend is good. Having 3 race events in the first 30 days of the season this year had to have stressed people financially so that they either missed one of those, or missed a later round because of it.

Anyways, just my two cents. I think the new track management has a pretty good eye towards improving the series, and so far, I think they've made some forward progress.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Oh, helmets. I did not get the impression that only SNELL 2010 helmets would be allowed, did someone hear that somewhere reliable?

[butcher bergs]

All this and they still wonder why the grids get smaller every year.



If they spent the same amount of effort getting rid of the concrete walls as they are soaking the community for cash, we'd have the safest track on the planet.

[Mr. Kurtz]

FYI, the improvements NHMS made early this season, mostly to T6, I recall hearing a cost of ~$50,000.

[butcher bergs]

Yet somehow the walls in T2, 3, the giant rock in T4 and the wall in T12 all still exist.

BTW, how much did those new bathrooms up near the bleachers cost? You know, the ones that were in "dire" need of being built, or were those considered part of the T6 improvements? 50,000 seems like an aweful lot of cake for a 6 foot wide, 50 foot long patch of tar and some rocks.

I gotta say, they made it real easy. Come 2011 I'll be taking all my racing money and going elsewhere. Just isn't worth it at Loudon anymore.

[Fitz]

Shrug... maybe I'm just jaded from years of car racing, but the costs to race at NHMS are pretty reasonable when you factor in the amount of seat time in my opinion.

COMSCC Car Time Trials - $230 for one day. (4) 20 minute sessions + time trials. Camping Rarely allowed. Unsure on fee.

Hillclimbing.org - $165 for three ~70 second practice runs on Saturday and three ~70 second race runs on Sunday. Camping is usually $40-60 for the weekend. Plus it's a haul from me (Mt Ascutney, Mt Okemo, Mt Philo, Burke, etc.. )

Auto-X - ~$65 for between three and six 60 second runs. Up at the a$$ crack of dawn and not home until 7pm IF the event is local.

One Lap of America - Don't even get me started. $2,700 entry fee. $1,300 in special stamped tires. Gas for a week. That one almost landed me in divorce court... both times.

NHMS - For $195 I get practice on Friday, Practice on Saturday, Practice on Sunday and an 8 lap race. Another $25 split two ways gets me camping for the weekend which is a hell of a lot cheaper than driving ~35 minutes back home. There's options to store a camper (which none of the other events allow), there are clean heated bathrooms and hot showers (which almost none of the other events have) and plenty of space to get out of the snow/rain.

Sure NJMP may be safer, but having never ridden/driven on that track I can't speak to it. Is a $60 strap on helmet sling a big deal? Nope. A new helmet? First I've heard of that; we'll label that TBD for now. Transponder? Shrug... $600 is a drag but if it's necessary? Any word on if the track will convert over to Graham's RFID system?

Fitz

[lrrs313]

The bottom line is this: as the costs associated with racing go up, attendance will go down. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, buying a transponder is not a huge deal (assuming you can get 3 or 4 years out of it before they decide to change systems). Yes, the Hats Off device (or whatever similar device they specify) is a good idea and $60 or so is really reasonable if it makes life easier for the medical staff. Yes, the Legend Cars will (theoretically) bring in more revenue to help make LRRS weekends more profitable.

However, for some people that extra money either a) pushes the cost over the affordable budget, or b) pushes the bullshit level over what that person deems acceptable. Either way, the grids lose a bike, the track loses gate fees from the rider and any friends/family he/she brings along, and LRRS loses the entry fees for however many races that (former) racer normally enters. Another consequence: Street & Comp, Boston Moto, MTAG, Motorace, Dunlop, VP, etc. lose the money that the racer would have spent. Just something to think about.

For me, I think I have reached a & b. I was planning on taking only a two to four year break from racing, but if they keep adding/raising costs I'm not sure I want to know how much it's going to cost to go racing in 2012 and beyond. Fuck 'em, BOMO and LAPS just got a future customer.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

The bottom line is this: as the costs associated with racing go up, attendance will go down. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, buying a transponder is not a huge deal (assuming you can get 3 or 4 years out of it before they decide to change systems). Yes, the Hats Off device (or whatever similar device they specify) is a good idea and $60 or so is really reasonable if it makes life easier for the medical staff. Yes, the Legend Cars will (theoretically) bring in more revenue to help make LRRS weekends more profitable.

However, for some people that extra money either a) pushes the cost over the affordable budget, or b) pushes the bullshit level over what that person deems acceptable. Either way, the grids lose a bike, the track loses gate fees from the rider and any friends/family he/she brings along, and LRRS loses the entry fees for however many races that (former) racer normally enters. Another consequence: Street & Comp, Boston Moto, MTAG, Motorace, Dunlop, VP, etc. lose the money that the racer would have spent. Just something to think about.

For me, I think I have reached a & b. I was planning on taking only a two to four year break from racing, but if they keep adding/raising costs I'm not sure I want to know how much it's going to cost to go racing in 2012 and beyond. Fuck 'em, BOMO and LAPS just got a future customer.

here, here

now on to the topic of how trackday companies are being sucked dry by nhms... take, take, take

[lrrs313]

here, here

now on to the topic of how trackday companies are being sucked dry by nhms... take, take, take

I'm assuming that once NHMS bankrupts and destroys LRRS they will turn their attention to the track day organizers. Unless I'm mistaken and this is already under way.

[Degsy]

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Boston Moto will welcome you with open arms. For about $1500 member fees you get about 60 20 minute sessions at various tracks in the northeast. We don't think that's beatable.

[lrrs313]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.734 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Boston Moto will welcome you with open arms. For about $1500 member fees you get about 60 20 minute sessions at various tracks in the northeast. We don't think that's beatable.

Yup. Give me a year or two to get other shit straightened out and hopefully you guys will be getting a bunch of my business.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Yet somehow the walls in T2, 3, the giant rock in T4 and the wall in T12 all still exist.

BTW, how much did those new bathrooms up near the bleachers cost? You know, the ones that were in "dire" need of being built, or were those considered part of the T6 improvements? 50,000 seems like an aweful lot of cake for a 6 foot wide, 50 foot long patch of tar and some rocks.

I gotta say, they made it real easy. Come 2011 I'll be taking all my racing money and going elsewhere. Just isn't worth it at Loudon anymore.

I'm far from an expert, but I can't see how they could move any of those walls without disrupting the NASCAR track, and we all know that just won't happen, it'd be foolish of them to disturb that track for motorcycle racing.

I also don't know the specifics of what they spent and how(hell, even the $50K estimate I heard could be off), but clearing the rocks, paving the outside edge of the track, bringing in all that pea gravel, and clearing the trees from the outside of 6/7 probably wasn't cheap. I think there was something done to the left side of the braking area for T3 as well? I'm guessing that new bathroom facility was heavily financed by the company that it's named for, some bathroom remodeling company.

The bottom line is this: as the costs associated with racing go up, attendance will go down. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, buying a transponder is not a huge deal (assuming you can get 3 or 4 years out of it before they decide to change systems). Yes, the Hats Off device (or whatever similar device they specify) is a good idea and $60 or so is really reasonable if it makes life easier for the medical staff. Yes, the Legend Cars will (theoretically) bring in more revenue to help make LRRS weekends more profitable.

However, for some people that extra money either a) pushes the cost over the affordable budget, or b) pushes the bullshit level over what that person deems acceptable. Either way, the grids lose a bike, the track loses gate fees from the rider and any friends/family he/she brings along, and LRRS loses the entry fees for however many races that (former) racer normally enters. Another consequence: Street & Comp, Boston Moto, MTAG, Motorace, Dunlop, VP, etc. lose the money that the racer would have spent. Just something to think about.

For me, I think I have reached a & b. I was planning on taking only a two to four year break from racing, but if they keep adding/raising costs I'm not sure I want to know how much it's going to cost to go racing in 2012 and beyond. Fuck 'em, BOMO and LAPS just got a future customer.

Trust me(and I'm sure all the LRRS vendors feel the same way), the last thing we want is less racers on the grid. I do think dropping one event might help reduce the strain on the racers(it will for me, not having 3 events so close together helps out). I know most of the racers I know either skipped a weekend this year, or cut back on the number of races for a couple weekends this year. If one less weekend makes them more likely to attend all/do 3 races per weekend, it's a good thing.

At the end of the day, every racer will have to look at what they spend and what it costs for a season, and decide whether it's for them. For those that don't think it's worth it, trackdays certainly make an attractive alternative way to get on the track and have fun without the competitive aspect, and the costs that go with it.

[butcher bergs]

Denomination semantics aside, my point is Mike, "they" have been slowly adding requirements and racing costs onto a tab for a track that itself is not safer in any way whatsoever for motorcycle road racing. That has always been my only gripe, even since last year. I see lots of new pavement and changes but they are on the wrong side of the fence and NONE of them reflect the safety of the racing experience with exception to the pea gravel in T6. How they deal with the walls and other "features" makes no difference to me because I've already moved on. Doing this one last weekend and that's it.

Not upset with anything you've state Mike, I just find it difficult to grasp that these people really don't know why or how the grids are empty when the rest of us regular folks can see the writing on the wall just fine.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Denomination semantics aside, my point is Mike, "they" have been slowly adding requirements and racing costs onto a tab for a track that itself is not safer in any way whatsoever for motorcycle road racing. That has always been my only gripe, even since last year. I see lots of new pavement and changes yet NONE of them reflect the safety of the racing experience. How they deal with the walls and other "features" makes no difference to me because I've already moved on. Doing this one last weekend and that's it.

Not upset with anything you've state Mike, I just find it difficult to grasp that these people really don't know why or how the grids are empty when the rest of us regular folks can see the writing on the wall just fine.

I guess I'm hoping that they'll continue to try and make improvements, and maybe they'll eventually get the grids filling back up. This being a reasonably tough year financially for a lot of people probably didn't help, either.

[TTD]

In addition to what you "see" in Turn 6, the wall was moved back in Turn 7/8 on the right and the left side of Turn 8 had much more gravel/other work.

As you go up the hill from Turn 3, the little gravel trap on the left was reshaped and smoothed out.

Several areas between turn 3 and 7 had pavement/other material added to the edges to help someone that goes off the track to get back on easier.

This easily eats up $50k. The bathrooms were $1mil plus... no comment.

A plan is on the table to make many more major improvements.

Right now, motorcycles contribute little to nothing to the NHMS bank.

[Pittenger5]

I just find it funny that they talk of all this work, and the added costs every year, then say you get one less race weekend per year. Is the fee for garages going to be 1/8 less? License? I highly doubt it. It's just more and more nickel and dime that takes away from the budget left for racing. Mike, you talk about how having one less weekend makes it easier on the budget, what about all these nickel and dime fees theyre coming up with? Theres just never hardly any improvements, the PA still doesnt work, there's rarely a weekend that goes by that theres not some transponder issues, etc etc. but they instutute all these new charges. And the "no other track does it" argument is BS for me. Things we had for free for years suddenly have charges to them and we're not allowed to be upset?
Oh well, my opinion really doesnt matter anymore. I'm not renting a transponder, paying for camping, buying a helmet safety device, maybe buying a new helmet for one weekend. I'm officially retired from LRRS.