Eject System

[lrrs428]

Your welcome, its a Spec1 Extreme. There is a channel in the back of the helmet that the tube fits perfectly into. If you wanted to cut a tiny slit in the liner you could exit the tube a lot closer to the shell which I may still do. I just wanted to get it in and see what it looked like.

Thanks for the post LRRS428. I wear Suomy and was wondering how the fit would be and what i could expect.

[Gecko]

The concerns you raise are something for the track to consider, it's certainly not my place to go into the ins and outs of the legal side of this issue. At this moment, I can only offer my personal opinion knowing what I know now. I am not a medical expert - just a rider who wants to see the sport and the people who participate in it continue to succeed. I expect that if the track is to indeed mandate this that they will also release some data supporting their decision. When and if that happens, we will all look what is presented and make a judgement from there.

Or not....

From: "LRRS - NHMS" <lrrs@nhms.com>
To: [LRRS Racer]
ent: Monday, January 30, 2012 2:52:32 PM
Subject: 2012 LRRS Season, Rulebook and NEWS

Greetings [LRRS Racer],

Happy New Year to you all! ... There are a number of changes this year, and I have done my best to outline them and point you to the appropriate location in the rulebook below, of course, if have questions, concerns or comments, please contact us at NHMS:

...

6. Last year it was recommended that all riders equip their helmets with the EJECT Helmet Removal System; it is now a requirement for the 2012 LRRS season ( Section 17.1.10) To purchase a device at a special discounted rate for LRRS riders only, please go to www.lrrsracing.com.
...
.

Too premature? Should we not expect supporting data released when the mandate is made?

This is not directed at you, but maybe this might be "something for the track to consider."
.

[butcher bergs]

Too premature? Should we not expect supporting data released when the mandate is made?

A little bird told me that requesting such a thing is "outlandish" (I believe that was the word).

[Jim]

Ordered mine yesterday. $50 is not worth the whining. the entry fees could have gone up costing me more than the $50 I spent on the helmet balloon.

[Gecko]

$50 is not worth the whining.

Well damn, is that what this is all about? How narrow minded of me. I stand corrected. Move along, nothing to see here; just a guy waiting for a little birdie to tell him he's "outlandish"....

[CEO]

Have we recently seen any cases where a rider was further injured by EMTs trying to remove their helmet? What sparked this?

EMTs are already trained to remove helmets properly.

It doesn't even seem to me like this is really quicker or gentler, based on the video on ejects website.

[Jim]

John, it's set in the 2012 rulebook now. you know you're going to race in the LRRS events this year. whether or not we agree that's it's good idea to require it doesnt matter. as far as i'm concerned, my racing fees went up by $50 for 2012.

[butcher bergs]

Guys, send an e-mail voicing your concerns.

Everyone got the e-mail from LRRS the other day. From the way I read it, it's not etched in stone yet and I'm guessing even moreso since the rule book is available only on the unofficial LRRS website.

Send an e-mail if you don't agree with making this device mandatory.

As it has already been said by many, it's not about the cost of this device, it's about the complete lack of documentation on all fronts.

Send an e-mail.

[palanon]

I haven't posted on the board much lately and frankly, I'm surprised you folks have driven me to it. First, I want to make it clear that I'm in no way speaking for NHMS or any of their employees, associates, etc. etc....

I have been on scene for literally hundreds of helmet removals. My guess would be that this system would not be used in a good majority of crashes. With that said, I've never been "present" when the standard form of helmet removal has NOT resulted in some manipulation of the spine/neck. good race helmets fit to tightly for ease of removal. however, this point is mute in the huge majority of cases since the injuries are not neck related. Really,,,there's not going to be some deranged EMT following everyone with a "penis pump" ( sorry, just loved that reference )!

Food for thought boys and girls;

1.) Believe it or not, LRRS and it's prior incarnations have always been at the forefront of safety. back to the days of hay bales, the management and officials have placed safety as a number one priority. I've had the honor and privilege to work and talk with many of them and I'm humbled by their dedication. What seems common now, cutting edge when used at Loudon.

2.) never has any money been made by safety improvements or mandates. If anything, hundreds of thousands, if not millions have been spent.

3.)This system is mandated by many race orgs. and is endorsed by many motorcycle racers and teams. Go to the web site and watch the videos.

4.) The EMT's are trained in the use of this system. They have the equipment to deploy this system. If they need to utilize a system like this, their comfortable with this system. You don't want a dozen different systems while dealing with a mass casualty.

5.) there is a small army of people, very good and dedicated people, looking out for everyone's well being. Will some better system for helmet removal come out some day? Maybe. Right now, this seems to be the best universally adopted system in racing.

I've held this product, seen the training videos, talked with folks who've used it. Honestly, if you stuck your empty sandwich bag from lunch in your helmet, it would be bigger. the vast majority of you will never use it. Hell, If it was to protect collar bones we'd be popping them off like fireworks during the Classic! However, I never want to hear even one debrief when someone say's " Damn! wish they had one of those ejection devices! ".

I know I hate you all but,,,better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[Kurlon]

From the way I read it, it's not etched in stone yet and I'm guessing even moreso since the rule book is available only on the unofficial LRRS website.

nhms.com is the unofficial LRRS website? That's where the 2012 rulebook was initially posted, still there too... I'd say this is etched in stone.

http://www.nhms.com/documents/2012-lrrs_rulebook.pdf

There's also a brochure for the 2012 classic!

http://www.nhms.com/documents/2012_l...c_brochure.pdf

[R7]

Honestly, if you stuck your empty sandwich bag from lunch in your helmet, it would be bigger.

Would the helmet manufacturer approve the use of an empty sandwhich bag being placed in your helmet? Unlikely, as with this unit!

I don't care about racing again, I'm more concerned about this shitty device being mandated for trackdays as well?? Can anyone confirm if it's required for trackdays?

[butcher bergs]

nhms.com is the unofficial LRRS website? That's where the 2012 rulebook was initially posted, still there too... I'd say this is etched in stone.

http://www.nhms.com/documents/2012-lrrs_rulebook.pdf

There's also a brochure for the 2012 classic!

http://www.nhms.com/documents/2012_l...c_brochure.pdf

nhms.com is the official website for the track, is it not? My mistake for not checking there but thanks for the heads up.

As far as the wording in the e-mail. I'm guessing you saw it and the wording suggests that there are a few loose ends to tie up, mostly with adverts and such which indicates that the final draft has not been composed at this time.

If you did not see it, would you like me to send it to you? It clearly states that if anyone sees in an issue with the ammended rules to send an e-mail.

...please keep in mind this is a pre-print version and is not a finished document.

also

...if have questions, concerns or comments, please contact us at NHMS;

[Kurlon]

That same email also says:

6. Last year it was recommended that all riders equip their helmets with the EJECT Helmet Removal System; it is now a requirement for the 2012 LRRS season ( Section 17.1.10) To purchase a device at a special discounted rate for LRRS riders only, please go to www.lrrsracing.com.

That wording implies to me that they're not planning on budging on this one. We were warned prior to last year actually, and it doesn't sound like enough people raised a stink until now, being the last minute... so...

[butcher bergs]

Josh, I get it. You are excited to be back racing this year and it does not matter what needs to happen to get yourself out there. I think that's great. I mean that. However it's very clear that I do not share the same enthusiasm as you regarding this device and am obviously not alone in this yet I am your target for rebuttal for reasons that escape me at the moment.

When the proper documentation shows up, I will change my opinion.

Fact of the matter is, making this device mandatory is completely unfounded and quite frankly I'd rather have human hands removing my helmet ANY day of the week over using this item. This is one of the few reasons I have chosen to race with an organization which grants me that option.

[palanon]

Would the helmet manufacturer approve the use of an empty sandwhich bag being placed in your helmet? Unlikely, as with this unit!

I don't care about racing again, I'm more concerned about this shitty device being mandated for trackdays as well?? Can anyone confirm if it's required for trackdays?

For the love of God! I knew not to get involved in this! If you think any manufacturer is going to approve any secondary piece of equipment, your dreaming. This is the U.S. of Sue You. If you don't own the product OR the Product Liability Insurance, you sure as hell aren't signing anywhere.

I guess you spent more time looking into the product, finding out what groups mandate and endorse it and talking to EMS people who have used it. Thank you for letting me know, unequivocally, that it is a "shitty devise". Now, did I find a few things I'm not crazy about? Sure. What I really Like? it's proven itself in real life crashes, 2 and 4 wheel. It's way, way, WAY better than what we have now, nothing.

Now, I can't confirm, for the record, but lets speculate;

Non leather suits - OK for most track days, not so much racing
Polycarbonate helmets - OK most track days, no for the green flag
Helmet mounted cameras - groovy for that track day experience - For the grid? No, helmet spikes not wanted.

Just to be sure, check with your track day provider.

[backinthesaddle]

I think SX requires such a system. SX has a dedicated medical team that follows the whole series (Asterisk Medical). Maybe someone could get their opinion.

edit - found this blurb online:

In 2009, the Asterisk Mobile Medical Center will be equipped with Shock Doctor’s Eject Helmet Removal System at all motocross and supercross events. Pulling a helmet off of a crash victim can cause injury to the neck and spine. The Eject Helmet Removal System allows for safe emergency removal of a helmet, by pushing it off the head after the spine has been immobilized.

[tls25rs]

No horse in this race, if i decide to race at Loudon this year i will have to play by their rules, but I am curious if this was used to remove the helmets of Trey Canard and Ryan Morais after their crash a week and a half ago where they were treated by the Asteriks (sp?) medical crew? Both riders have spinal fractures and took pretty good blows to the head and neck area.

Joel

[CBR929RE]

I think SX requires such a system. SX has a dedicated medical team that follows the whole series (Asterisk Medical). Maybe someone could get their opinion.

edit - found this blurb online:

In 2009, the Asterisk Mobile Medical Center will be equipped with Shock Doctor’s Eject Helmet Removal System at all motocross and supercross events. Pulling a helmet off of a crash victim can cause injury to the neck and spine. The Eject Helmet Removal System allows for safe emergency removal of a helmet, by pushing it off the head after the spine has been immobilized.

so really its almost useless.









I'm still not happy about having to install this thing but I will follow the rules. and maybe I'm deaf or I wasn't paying attention or I just have a bad memory but I was at every riders meeting last year and I don't remember hearing about this thing even once.

[backinthesaddle]

No horse in this race, if i decide to race at Loudon this year i will have to play by their rules, but I am curious if this was used to remove the helmets of Trey Canard and Ryan Morais after their crash a week and a half ago where they were treated by the Asteriks (sp?) medical crew? Both riders have spinal fractures and took pretty good blows to the head and neck area.

Joel

How about Rattray (Lites) this past weekend. I think he cracked a couple vertebrae also. They should have flagged the race and restarted instead they kept working on him on the track while the racers jumped past them.

[csmutty]

so really its almost useless.

I'm still not happy about having to install this thing but I will follow the rules. and maybe I'm deaf or I wasn't paying attention or I just have a bad memory but I was at every riders meeting last year and I don't remember hearing about this thing even once.

You are deaf. I heard about it multiple times.

If you think any manufacturer is going to approve any secondary piece of equipment, your dreaming. This is the U.S. of Sue You. If you don't own the product OR the Product Liability Insurance, you sure as hell aren't signing anywhere.

Truth.

[CBR929RE]

You are deaf. I heard about it multiple times.

Truth.

then I'm gonna blame it on not being fully awake yet cause I don't normally get up till 11 or I'm old and going deaf from too many loud concerts when I was your age. maybe both

[The Snowman]

An interesting video. Not sure about the care that;s taken on the non-eject removal though. I would think that they would remove the helmet more slowly.

EJECT Demo by DMX - YouTube

[Kurlon]

Interesting, that demo vid shows a unit that the EMT slides into the helmet at the scene. If that option is available...

[Degsy]

Is that footage sped up? That thing inflates a bit quickly for my liking.

[The Snowman]

Is that footage sped up? That thing inflates a bit quickly for my liking.

Not sure. Like I mentioned in the original post, it also looks like they remove the helmet awfully fast manually as well.