Foot out fans - Your Turn

[Kurlon]

JM showed up for this race, coming down from Canada to show off his foot out motard style. He normally races on polished concrete, even sicker than MIK's surface, and his ability to deal with sliding shows quite nicely. It also makes him a PITA to get around. I just gotta grow a pair and either go around him on the outside of the sweeper, or be more insistent about showing a wheel I guess... : )

[nt650hawk]

Nice ride.

You should have taken him when he bobbled in T2.

[KB]

Cool video. I drove by that place in scarborough last week.

KB

[Kurlon]

Nice ride.

You should have taken him when he bobbled in T2.

I should have been more on top of him in general rather than waiting to play catchup on the sweeper.

[Sheppo]

that looks so F'n Cool !!!

[seth399]

nice vid, I feel like on a mini I'd have to do foot out but I dunno

[Paul_E_D]

On a tiny concrete track I'd be foot out for sure. Any slick surface will favor foot out riding because you have a MUCH stronger balance point with your weight on top of the bike. Hanging off puts you weight under the bike which is not good when the wheels want to slide.

The trade off (as you guys know) is lean angle. You use more with the foot out syle, but in limited traction conditions, the better balance outweighs the use of higher lean angles.

[OreoGaborio]

I had tons o fun slidin both wheels when Alex, Matt Stone & I raced at that place that's now closed down in Foxboro. That was SUCH a fun day

I just stuck w/ what I knew & that was knee out. I woulda done alright if I stopped crashing like a maniac


I can't see the video at work but I'll check it out when I get home.

[Kurlon]

I can't even jokingly ride foot out... I just don't have a grasp of the mechanics I guess.

[Paul_E_D]

I had tons o fun slidin both wheels when Alex, Matt Stone & I raced at that place that's now closed down in Foxboro. That was SUCH a fun day

I just stuck w/ what I knew & that was knee out. I woulda done alright if I stopped crashing like a maniac

That's just it. With your weight under the bike, slides will be very hard to control. You my get lucky and find the right lean angle to drift without falling, but it's hard to adjust that angle as the bike slows, and down you go.

weight on top, like magic you can slide and hold the bike up pushing weight down on the outside peg and pulling up gently on the bars.

[OreoGaborio]

Gotcha.

Most of my slides I was able to control just by BURRYING my knee in the ground & holding the bike up however I could until the tires caught again.... but obviously it didn't work every time, cuz I still crashed about 50 times that day

[Kurlon]

...hrmmm... maybe I should try foot out on the infield where I'm obviously loosing time, as on the sweeper I got the knee down thing working so far.

[Paul_E_D]

Try this. Get your bicycle and stand over it. put your right foot on the pedal and lean the bike down to the left. take your left foot off the ground and balance the bike. lean it up and down by pulling on the bars. Pretty damned stable.

Now try putting your left foot on the pedal and lean the bike to the left. Take your right foot off the ground. Baahaaa! If you tried that you're an idiot because you're on the ground.

The difference is amazing static, and in motion. Knee out you have only centrifugal force to keep the bike up. Foot out style you actually have balance AND centrifugal force to keep the bike up. Which one is better for sliding?

[Ericthejet]

Thanks for posting the video.
It looks like a whole bunch of fun and reminds me of a video game from the 80's based on the look of the smaller machines.

[Kurlon]

Try this. Get your bicycle and stand over it. put your right foot on the pedal and lean the bike down to the left. take your left foot off the ground and balance the bike. lean it up and down by pulling on the bars. Pretty damned stable.

Now try putting your left foot on the pedal and lean the bike to the left. Take your right foot off the ground. Baahaaa! If you tried that you're an idiot because you're on the ground.

The difference is amazing static, and in motion. Knee out you have only centrifugal force to keep the bike up. Foot out style you actually have balance AND centrifugal force to keep the bike up. Which one is better for sliding?

Heh, I can relate, there are two points in that vid where I basically come to an abrupt stop in turn 1 (Everyone's calling it T2, the line is actually past the flagger, just after the turn by the windows) with my body fully off the bike, knee down, and the only thing keeping me upright was dumb luck. I think that's part of what's making that infield left right double hairpin combo so tough, I'm practically tiptoeing through which makes the bike unstable knee out.

Maybe next week we'll get some good crash footage of me trying to figure this out.

[a13x]

On a tiny concrete track I'd be foot out for sure. Any slick surface will favor foot out riding because you have a MUCH stronger balance point with your weight on top of the bike. Hanging off puts you weight under the bike which is not good when the wheels want to slide.

The trade off (as you guys know) is lean angle. You use more with the foot out syle, but in limited traction conditions, the better balance outweighs the use of higher lean angles.

Practice has shown my knee-down in slick conditions is better than foot out. I raced every Tuesday night in Foxboro on a slick concrete track so had plenty of time to experiment.

Heck when Jeff Wood came and did the big race at Foxboro he was footout. I was like 'what are you doing dude, go knee down'. He didn't believe me but tried it. Needless to say he was kneedown and WAY faster rest of the time. Reason is this: With knee down you can literally hold the bike up when it slides, front, rear, both, doesn't matter.



*shrug* just relaying my personal experience in minimoto racing. I've always been kneedown in every condition. I've always been one of if not the fastest minimotard racer in the corners as well. Your Milage May Vary.

[Paul_E_D]

Interesting. I've actually never ridden minis, so I was speaking in general. So why don't you do this in dirt?

[Kurlon]

Interesting. I've actually never ridden minis, so I was speaking in general. So why don't you do this in dirt?

I'll see if I can find the pics... I tried. : ) My 70, setup for pavement racing still with a drag bar, etc, at Englishtown NJ's Raceway park. Full on SX track, and I'm out there in full leathers (I didn't own dirt gear) with a knobbied up road race machine trying to drop a knee in the berms. Got some funny looks that first practice.

A friend pulled me aside, talked me into buying dirt gear on site, and gave me some pointers. I still stunk it up, but had a ball.

edit:
I like to call this one: "Get outta my way, NEWB!"

2nd edit: Come up to MIK and I'll toss ya on a mini, they're a blast.

[Kurlon]

I've always been one of if not the fastest minimotard racer in the corners as well. Your Milage May Vary.

You doing the MoM series this year?

[a13x]

Interesting. I've actually never ridden minis, so I was speaking in general. So why don't you do this in dirt?

Pavement, even slick pavement, reacts in a predictable way. Dirt doesn't, it changes lap by lap. Plus the dynamics are way different.

[Awesome]

Interesting. I've actually never ridden minis, so I was speaking in general. So why don't you do this in dirt?

It's a give or take on minis. A crf50 has a short wheel base and is low to the ground, taller longer heavier bikes do better with a foot out on slick surfaces.

[SVRACER01]

im w/ Jay. if youre on a taller mini then foot out is not only easier but a little more stable but a stock 50 or a lower mini knee out would be a little easier since you really dont have anywhere to put your leg/knee. at the MoM at Cycles i was foot out in the warehouse it was faster for many reasons. main reason being the big pillions at all the apexs....i caught a shoulder and a knee tyring ride RR style through there.

[a13x]

It's a give or take on minis. A crf50 has a short wheel base and is low to the ground, taller longer heavier bikes do better with a foot out on slick surfaces.

Sho'nuff.