MotoGP 2016

[Gecko]

Why were there so many people standing around. As far as Im concerned, if youre going to do a flag to flag, 2 crew members on hot pit. one to hold the new bike, 1 to catch the old. Minimizes the chances of something like this happening.

I respectfully disagree, especially since he hit the crew member who was to catch the old bike. The question isn't why there were so many people standing around, but why Bautista wasn't exercising greater (or any) care given the known situation in the pits. Each team was preparing for the swap and they are entitled to be in the box in front of their own garage. The ride must safely negotiate his way into his own box. Bautista failed to do that. Its really no different that F1. While DORNA may want to review how the pits are run in a flag-to-flag race situation (to minimize the possibility of a greater number of people getting hurt in an incident), that would not have prohibited this situation.

[Gecko]

Yes, concrete and too many people standing around. I believe this very thing happened to one of our members at Loudon, and that was after a race was over. In this case, it was an embarrassing fall, and that guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you're talking about the incident in the center garages ... I was there and saw it happen ... I had that incident in mind when I wrote the above. I never spoke to the rider, so I don't know what happened from his point of view, but as an outsider looking in ... it sure looked like it was more than an "embarrassing fall."

[OreoGaborio]

If I'm Race Direction, I'm calling Bautista in to explain wtf happened

This happened during THE mid-race bike swap, right? If so, then here's what happened.

It was in the middle of a race, he came in for a bike swap that shouldn't have even had to happen in the first place, he locked up the front and pitched it into one of his mechanics.

Hot pit is a dangerous place, especially when your tire manufacturer can't even make a tire that'll last a whole race, forcing EVERYONE to come in half way through & swap bikes (entertaining to watch, dangerous to take part in).

Crashes happens when you're racing.... and anything that happens on hot pit, during the middle of a race, IS part of the race.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have been more careful. Obviously he should have, since he dumped it & took out one of his mechanics... I'm just saying that I don't think he's a dickhead as gixxer72's emoticon implied.

Any incident that's happened at LRRS by the garages WASN'T part of a race since you're out as soon as you cross the pit wall. As such, should be irrelevant to this incident.

[motoarch]

I'm not as forgiving as you, Pete. Unless they can show the bike failed in some way, I'm looking at a WHOLE lot of carelessness right there in that video. Replaying it a couple of times, it seems he came in way too hot and locked the front as he tried to do the left/right squiggle before stopping. Very poor judgment. I view Bautista's lapse in judgment to be worse than Iannone's lapse in judgment. At least Iannone's occurred on track, in the heat of battle with Dovi. Bautista's occurred in pit lane, where extra caution and care should always be used because pits pit crews don't have protective gear and are not always on guard for such events. Extra care should always be used in the pits. My understanding is that Iannone received one penalty point for his on-track lapse in judgment. If I'm Race Direction, I'm calling Bautista in to explain wtf happened and, absent some showing the bike failed, I'm docking him a penalty point. Oh, and the fact that it was his own pit crew, is of no consequence to me as Race Direction becasue Bautista could have just as easily missed his own mechanic and crashed into one one of the other mechanics next door.

<<steps down from soapbox>>

Shut the fuck up. Until you have the skill to ride a GP bike you have zero fucking clue as to what just happened and are damn sure not in position to make a judgement. Just plain fucking stupid comment.

[loudbeard]

Well that escalated quickly

[motoarch]

sorry, dont know where that came from. I need a nap.

[gixxer72]

This happened during THE mid-race bike swap, right? If so, then here's what happened.

It was in the middle of a race, he came in for a bike swap that shouldn't have even had to happen in the first place, he locked up the front and pitched it into one of his mechanics.

Hot pit is a dangerous place, especially when your tire manufacturer can't even make a tire that'll last a whole race, forcing EVERYONE to come in half way through & swap bikes (entertaining to watch, dangerous to take part in).

Crashes happens when you're racing.... and anything that happens on hot pit, during the middle of a race, IS part of the race.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have been more careful. Obviously he should have, since he dumped it & took out one of his mechanics... I'm just saying that I don't think he's a dickhead as gixxer72's emoticon implied.

Any incident that's happened at LRRS by the garages WASN'T part of a race since you're out as soon as you cross the pit wall. As such, should be irrelevant to this incident.

For what it's worth I don't dislike Bautista, and don't think he's a full time dickhead, but that was a dickhead move and put other people at risk.

[Pittenger5]

It looked to me that he was planning to go straight past and do another lap, but got surprised by the sign telling him to pit and reacted too late.
That, if so, provides an explanation, but not an excuse -- if he was going too fast when he spotted the sign to safely pit, he shouldn't have done it.

PhilB

He was in the pits, not on the straight. He was in there to pit. He's just bowling ball bautista. "calculated risk" is not in his vocabulary.

[Pittenger5]

I respectfully disagree, especially since he hit the crew member who was to catch the old bike.

Thats why I said minimize. Yes, even if there were 2 guys on hot pit in this case it still probably would have happened, but just watch the video and look how many people are just dicking around. One of the crew members in the pit box before had to move to get out of the way.

[Dmitry]

It looked to me that he was planning to go straight past and do another lap, but got surprised by the sign telling him to pit and reacted too late.
That, if so, provides an explanation, but not an excuse -- if he was going too fast when he spotted the sign to safely pit, he shouldn't have done it.

PhilB

He was in Pit lane that means he was already on the pit limiter, 60 kph or whatever, for at least 10 seconds from entrance of the pit to his pit stall

[PhilB]

He was in Pit lane that means he was already on the pit limiter, 60 kph or whatever, for at least 10 seconds from entrance of the pit to his pit stall

OK then, yeah, he was just going too fast and didn't slow down in time to make his stop. Maybe he forgot where his pit was? He really seemed surprised by the whole thing.

PhilB

[Tekime]

Not in English but I think he made a statement here, according to Google Translate:

Thus he explained Alvaro own the incident: "On lap in which he planned to enter the box to change bikes in the first corner almost touched me with another rider and I could not avoid the fall I was able to continue with the bike. quickly and when he entered the box when I was braking, I've gone from asphalt to wet cement and have slipped unable to avoid the mechanic was waiting for me to pick up the bike. After seeing his situation I got on the bike to finish the race, but the track was really very uncomfortable. "

So he lost traction when he hit the wet cement? Not sure how accurate that is, it translated the title as "Bautista hit by one of his mechanic" lol

Seems like they usually brake hard & late for a fast change but maybe a bit too far for the conditions, wasn't slowing down at all on that cement, too fast I don't know.. hard to tell much the video looks like it was shot in 1983!

[Gecko]

This happened during THE mid-race bike swap, right? If so, then here's what happened.

It was in the middle of a race, he came in for a bike swap that shouldn't have even had to happen in the first place, he locked up the front and pitched it into one of his mechanics.

Hot pit is a dangerous place, especially when your tire manufacturer can't even make a tire that'll last a whole race, forcing EVERYONE to come in half way through & swap bikes (entertaining to watch, dangerous to take part in).

Crashes happens when you're racing.... and anything that happens on hot pit, during the middle of a race, IS part of the race.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have been more careful. Obviously he should have, since he dumped it & took out one of his mechanics... I'm just saying that I don't think he's a dickhead as gixxer72's emoticon implied.

Any incident that's happened at LRRS by the garages WASN'T part of a race since you're out as soon as you cross the pit wall. As such, should be irrelevant to this incident.

Pete, I don’t think we disagree on what happened. I think we disagree on the level of carelessness displayed and the consequences that should befall Bautista. Correct me if I’m wrong, you see it more as a racing “incident” and I view it more as a careless lapse in judgment, worthy of a penalty. I justify the infraction because it occurred in pit lane, where extra caution and care should always be used.

I agree that, but for Michelin’s short comings, this would never have been necessary. That kind of misses the point, but does open another issue. It is my understanding that it was only the Ducati’s that could not go the race distance with the Michelins. Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki and Aprilia didn’t have any issues going the race distance safely on the Michelins. An interesting discussion might be whether the whole paddock should have been meant to adjust (run a flag-to-flag race) or whether Ducati, with their big bhp bikes, should have detuned (or changed the electronics on) their bikes a little to be able to run what Michelin brought to the track without shredding the tires.

I don’t disagree that any incident that's happened at LRRS by the garages is not relevant to Bautista’s incident. Paul made it clear that any LRRS incident happened after a race was over. I was merely responding to Paul’s post.

Thats why I said minimize. Yes, even if there were 2 guys on hot pit in this case it still probably would have happened, but just watch the video and look how many people are just dicking around. One of the crew members in the pit box before had to move to get out of the way.

Richie, I understand and agree with you. You had a good point, but wanted to distinguish it from being an excuse for the incident. That’s why I intimated in the post that DORNA may want to review how the pits are run in a flag-to-flag race situation (to minimize the possibility of a greater number of people getting hurt in an incident)

[OreoGaborio]

I'm not saying he wasn't careless. I'm just saying "shit happens" and "he's not a dickhead for it".

This happened in the middle of a race during the heat of battle. Racers crash. That's why it's called "HOT pit".... It is, by all intents and purposes, part of a hot race track.

I don't think Bautista is any more deserving of a penalty than Iannone.

[Gecko]

Shut the fuck up. Until you have the skill to ride a GP bike you have zero fucking clue as to what just happened and are damn sure not in position to make a judgement. Just plain fucking stupid comment.

Well, I thought about taking the high road on this one, but I just cannot. I don’t mind my ideas or thoughts being called stupid ... or even “fucking” stupid. Indeed, there are some Connecticut Supreme Court judges as well some Connecticut Appellate court judges, yes, and even Superior court judges, that have thought my ideas and arguments were less than compelling. I do mind, however, when someone chests-up and tells me to “shut the fuck up.” Unless you’re a judge that I’m appearing before on an argument, that gets my hair all prickly and out of sorts.

So, Ian, if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that, “until [I] have the skill to ride a GP bike,” I am not entitled to express or share my personal opinion with my fellow LRRS competitors on this forum, some of whom I have been racing with at the expert club level for coming up on 13 years now, regarding a race we all saw on television. Does that about sum it up?

First, how do you know whether I do or do not have the skill to ride a GP bike? What race have you ever been in with me, let alone watched? Why do you assume? Because I haven’t raced in MotoGP? Maybe I do have the skills, but decided I didn’t want to waste my expensive law degree on a short racing career? Maybe I decided my law practice might provide my family with a more sustainable income source into my 70’s and 80’s than a short racing career? Do you also believe all the commentators and authors who speak and write on MotoGP are all former MotoPG riders or have the skills to ride a GP bike? Or, in your eyes, do they all fall into the same catagory as I do?

Second, in order for you to know that “[I] have zero fucking clue as to what just happened ... [and my comment was] [j]ust plain fucking stupid” you yourself must necessarily have a “fucking clue as to what just happened,” otherwise you're just talking out of your ass. I mean, being a good person, as I am sure you are, you always practice what you preach, right? Surely, then, you have never rendered a personal opinion on a MotoGP race incident without “hav[ing] the skill to ride a GP bike” yourself, right? Hmm....

Let’s go back to a post you wrote back in Oct. 2015 regarding the Rossi / Marques incident:

What rule did he break? He was on the inside and slowed as he moved outside. Marc could have pulled up but chose not to. He ran into Rossi. Rossi either a. pushed Marc with his leg or b. when Marc made contact it pushed Rossis leg off his peg. You can believe either but prove neither. They were both being childish but I'm not sure it's on Rossi and I still don't know what rule he broke.

Hmm, seems to me you are doing the exact same thing in this post, no? Uhm, "hello Pot, this is Kettle you’re looking a little dark today." So, giving you the benefit of the doubt, why don’t you please regale us with your MotoGp riding experience that would provide support for your personal opinions. No? No MotoGp riding experience? Okay, surely you must have experience riding in WSBK? No? How about BSB? How about race experience in MotoAmerica? AMA? No? Oh dear lord, please tell me you’re not one of those yahoo LRRS racers who don’t know their ass-from-a-hole-in-the-ground and spout off about racing stuff they don’t know (like me)? No? You’re not even one of them? Well, then, what experience do you draw upon?

I ask this assuming that you’ve already had that long deserved nap you mentioned that you needed. If not, go ahead and take the nap, and get back to us. Otherwise, please enlighten us, and help us to understand why you should not be relegated to troll status.

By the way, I travel through Nowalk, CT every day on my way to work in Stamford. Maybe we could meet up and have some coffee some morning or even grab some breakfast. We can chat all about this. Just ask any one of my fellow competitors in the LRRS paddock, I’m a pretty decent guy to talk to, as well as race with. I can promise you that I won’t tell you to “shut the fuck up.”

[OreoGaborio]

Shut the fuck up. Until you have the skill to ride a GP bike you have zero fucking clue as to what just happened and are damn sure not in position to make a judgement. Just plain fucking stupid comment.

Now THAT'S a fuckin douche post.

[Gecko]

I don't think Bautista is any more deserving of a penalty than Iannone.

I'm a little less convinced on the Bautista incident (because it occurred in the pits), but I agree with you on Iannone & Dovi coming together, it was a racing incident in the heat of battle.

[OreoGaborio]

The only way for us to settle this is with a pit bike race. I'll bring my Death Scoot to round 1. It has no brakes so there's no risk of me tucking the front in the pits.

[JettaJayGLS]

Finally caught up on all the races and finally was able to catch up on this thread! It delivered, that's for sure.

I think Redding's tire was a fluke...but I understand the need for the extra caution.

Moto 3 was great. I typically watch all the races while riding my bicycle and everytime Pawi bobbled I practically fell off the rollers. Also, what a shame for Norrodin! He played it perfect: followed Navarro all race, kept the pressure one, and waited to make his move til the end. He had control of the line, the finish was super close to the exit of the turn that he could have backed off a hair and fended him off. But, that's racing and what makes it exciting.

Moto 2 may have been the best. I'm really pulling for Lowe's this year. I like how loose he rides, but I also think that is what is holding him back. But who am I to say...I mean, I don't have the skill to ride in MotoGP so I obviously can't form an opinion or participate in a discussion.

Moto GP was interesting. I wonder if things would have been different if Rossi and Marquez didn't get split by the rider who stayed on track. Closing down a 4 second gap is much harder than riding someones wheel...especially in damp conditions when you can gauge your speed off the rider in front of you. I don't think Rossi would have been able to win the race or even form an attack, but he may have been able to follow Marquez as he did in Quatar without ever putting a move on.

I didn't even know about the Bautista incident until now. Personally, I think he should receive a penalty point or two. I agree that hot pit is part of the race. If you make a bone head move during a race, you receive penalty points. He did just that. Nothing against him personally, this is racing, and there are penalties for riding carelessly. I think Iannone deserves the penalty points he received as well.

[Bodhi]

Does anyone have the MotoGP video pass, and what are your thoughts on it?

[JettaJayGLS]

Most of us do. Its fantastic. Split it with a friend.

[Bodhi]

Just flipped back a couple pages and saw the comments about it as well. I'd split it with riding friends, but they all have harleys so I'll leave them to their SOA, Ink Masters, and Gangland.

Besides its a "bike" purchase, so its warranted.

[Gecko]

Most of us do. Its fantastic. Split it with a friend.

I've had it for many years ... and its fantastic, especially now more than ever with the television networks swapping coverage. The MotoGP video pass remains consistent (and with the archived races, I can watch the racing while riding my bicycle on the fluid trainer).

[JettaJayGLS]

I couldn't resist and bought the WSBK one this year as well. Equally as good.

[Gecko]

I couldn't resist and bought the WSBK one this year as well. Equally as good.

I did the same a couple years back. One thing to be aware of with the WSBK video pass is that they do not show all the practice sessions like the MotoGP video pass, only the qualifying sessions and the races (however they do offer live timing for the practice sessions they do not telecast).