Looking through the turn question

[Pittenger5]

So everyone and their grandma knows you're supposed to look through the turn, and where you want to go. But how far ahead do you guys tend to look? I've had people (FAST people) tell me once you tip in for 3 you should already be looking at the cone at 4. It registered to me last year, and sent up huge flares and neon signs this year trying to learn the motard that I tend to break down where I look in turns into segments. For example, when I tip in for 3 I first look at the apex of the rumble strip I want to hit, then to the pit in the track up the hill, then look towards the cone in 4. I dont make it smooth, cause when I tend to look too far ahead I find myself drifting WAAAY too wide.
So, is breaking the corner down into sections going to hurt me in the future when I'm clawing for 1/10s of a second, or is something that more people do than like to admit? And if so, how do I keep myself from drifting when I'm looking ahead?

[hammadown]

I have the same problem. When I look too far ahead (ie up the hill while at the 3 apex, I go waaaay off line.

[OreoGaborio]

It's a continual scan, in & out, in & out.... I look as far ahead as I can see & process, then back to what's about a second in front of me, then scan to as far ahead as I can see & process, then back to what's about a second in front of me, then.......

I try and spot the T4 apex cone as early as my T3 tip-in point and I just keep scanning in & out.

EDIT: I try to keep my eyes 1 to 2 refferrence cones ahead of where I am.

[Kurlon]

Look one reference point ahead, so you aim for it. As you lock in, look to the next one once you know you're on target for the first.

[BMFR6]

more reference points is what you need. just looking far ahead at nothing serves no purpose. talk to some of the fast guys about how many reference points they have, it's crazy. maybe paul or scott will chime in with some of their examples. you should be adding to your reference points as you get more laps. you'll know you have plenty of points when you are with in inches of the same line at any point in a corner lap after lap. having more reference points to use as you look through the corner is how you get rid of the lost feeling by looking too far ahead.

[jimmycapp]

[QUOTE=OreoGaborio;695413]It's a continual scan, in & out.... I look at what's about a second in front of me, then scan to as far ahead as I can see & process, then back to what's about a second in front of me, then scan to as far ahead as I can see & process, then back to what's about a second in front of me, then.......
QUOTE]



I found at new jersey last week, in that lonnnnnngggg lefty before the strait, that I was looking so far ahead, that I was looking at the other side of the track, then back to 1-2 seconds ahead. The furthur I look ahead, the easier the bike seems to lays down.

[Pittenger5]

more reference points is what you need.

Thats kind of what I figured, but then I thought maybe I'm gonna start squaring things off too much instead of one smooth fluid curve, which would hurt me when I start clawing for those 1/10s of a second.

[Honclfibr]

I'll let you in on a little secret. While you're in turn three looking up into turn four, I'm looking up into turn ten. I mean it's right there over the tire walls. I'm like, 6 turns ahead of you. Beat that.

[BMFR6]

pardon my stupid drawing, but it gets the job done. if you were to connect the reference points in each example, which one makes the smoother corner?

Attachment 14834

[a13x]

Brake Point -> Turn In -> Apex -> Exit Point -> Downtrack

Least that's how I do it.

[Pittenger5]

pardon my stupid drawing, but it gets the job done.

Ahh yes, did not think of it this way. So I guess the question then becomes how many reference points do you need before it becomes an overload, and of course theres no correct answer to that.

[RyanNicholson]

Ahh yes, did not think of it this way. So I guess the question then becomes how many reference points do you need before it becomes an overload, and of course theres no correct answer to that.

BMFR is exactly right... its easy to sway off your line looking ahead to your next reference point if they are too far apart. Theres never "too many" points, but as you keep practicing and thinking about it you'll hit them and look for them without even making a conscious effort, and you'll just keep adding more as you turn more laps.

[Paul_E_D]

You need a lot of reference points on and off line so you can keep you bearings in different situations. It will slow you down to look at all you reference points as you go through the turn, so you end up with something like Alex posted. He has more points (I'm guessing) but those are the ones he focuses on each lap. The rest are in his peripheral vision/conciousness.

If you run wide looking far up the track, you have lost touch with your apex mark or you just don't trust that the same steering input will get you there every time.

Staring at the apex is no good either though, because you won't open the gas til you look up to your exit. My guess is that you are just mentally WITH the bike instead of AHEAD of it.

[a13x]

He has more points (I'm guessing) but those are the ones he focuses on each lap. The rest are in his peripheral vision/conciousness.

Correct.

After I posted I thought about it while eating a excellent egg sammich and yes I have some more that are good for me in particular turns. The ones I listed above are my Big Daddies and there are lots of little ones throughout the corner that I keep a mental check on.

Either way I'm looking always ahead of the motorcycle at where I'm going, not where I am.

[OreoGaborio]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung Lube.... Er, Glyde: Mozilla/5.0 440x240 Samsung SCH-U940 NetFront/3.4)

I'll let you in on a little secret. While you're in turn three looking up into turn four, I'm looking up into turn ten. I mean it's right there over the tire walls. I'm like, 6 turns ahead of you. Beat that.

Aight, you asked for it.... comin outta 2 I'm lookin at my turn-in for 11. Trust me, once you jump on the powerhouse SV, you'll be doin the same thing :p

[13]

Wirelessly posted (my phone: Mozilla/4.1 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; ) 400x240 LGE VX10000)

I'm usually crying with my eyes closed. Except in turn 9. I like that corner.

[G21forme]

I'm not a racer but I find myself with the opposite problem on the street, when I look through to the end of the turn I find myself running tighter and tighter then my line get's all fucked up so I have been looking 2/3 - 3/4 through the turn to keep my line. Is that just because I'm obviously going much slower??

[Paul_E_D]

Correct. If you look farther ahead you should run a tighter line. Now increase your speed until your line is appropriate. This is why there is a small margin for error in racing. Your speed dictates your line once technique is good.

Pittengers original post about running wide when looking far ahead indicates a technique problem. I can't really say what without watching him do it though...

[Pittenger5]

Pittengers original post about running wide when looking far ahead indicates a technique problem. I can't really say what without watching him do it though...

Technique as in throttle brake control, lean angle, hanging off or lack thereof? Maybe all three? Impossible to say without seeing?

[Paul_E_D]

Turn in sets your lean angle and line. That's where I'd start analyzing the problem.

[DucDave]

I think it varies from person to person and turn to turn. You need to find what works for you.

Rossi doesn't look ahead at all...
...he says he already knows what's ahead and focuses on nailing his line closer in.

but, what does he know!

[Paul_E_D]

http://resources.motogp.com/files/im...0.original.jpg

I call BS. Rossi looks ahead as much or more than the next guy. He may not crane his neck as much as edwards or some other guys, but he's not looking at the fender!

[NeverlosT]

At NJMP Gino looks about 5 corners ahead. that man must wear binoculars under his helmet...

Pittenger I have the same problem as you. When I look too far ahead, sometimes I run wide. I started to look at the apex, reach it, then look far ahead and I am staying tighter. I also moved the point I look at in the distance a little bit closer to the inside of the corner. I determined that my "far ahead" reference point was too wide, and carrying me out.

My biggest problem with only using a far ahead "tight in" reference point is almost running off the inside of the track at the apex! Solution for me was look first to the apex then to the "far off-tight in" reference point.

Hope that helps, im no pro, just learning, so take with grain or two of salt.

[DucDave]

http://resources.motogp.com/files/im...0.original.jpg

I call BS. Rossi looks ahead as much or more than the next guy. He may not crane his neck as much as edwards or some other guys, but he's not looking at the fender!

I didn't make that up. It was a comment HE MADE in one of the rags. Cycle World...Road Racing World...whatever.

So, call it want you want but your calling Rossi's BS, not mine!!!

[Pittenger5]

I think we need a racing rule, you can no longer ever use Rossi or Jeff Wood as an example of anything. These people are not men. They're machines