Bike Smokes when coming to a stop

[KB]

Ok I have been pulling my hair out with this problem.

I have a 1998 Superhawk with 33,000 miles on it. Very hard miles mind you. This spring I put a clutch in it, and replaced the needles with adjustable ones, and removed the pair valve.

Shortly after all of this it started smoking out of the exhaust when coming to a hard stop.

Now I though maybe it was the pair valve? So I put it back in. Still smokes

Next I thought maybe the needles? I put the stock ones back in! Still smokes

Next I though maybe it was my oil level too high. Nope right on the money. I even went so far as to drain every last drop out of it and replace it with the exact amount the manual calls for.

I don't know what coul dbe causing this. Bad rings? Bad Valve guides?

It doesn't smoke while riding it. It doesn't smoke when I start it. Only when I come to a hard stop.

Please please please help me. Is it possible that it needs a rebuild already at 33,000 miles? Is it possible that someone pulled a fast one on me and it has more miles than on the odometer?

I am ready to set a match to the gas tank and roast some marshmallows with it.

KB

[Stoneman]

I don't have any answers for you yet about the smoking, sorry. But with those digital odometers, it's basically impossible to fuck with the mileage...

I don't think that 33,000 miles is a lot for a modern sportbike engine, so I would hesitate to think it's 'shot'. I have a feeling there's a very explanation as to why this is happening. I just don't have one...

Anyone? Anyone?

[Honclfibr]

Well when I endo'd I ended up with a puddle of oil in the airbox. I asked around, Rye mentioned that there's a little one way valve thing in the crankcase vent hose that's supposed to keep the oil from getting puked up into the airbox, but that it doesn't always work so well.

Of course, this was with the bike upside down, I dunno that just a hard stop would be enough to suck oil up into your airbox. Wouldn't be hard to check tho...

[KB]

I had the airbox off last night. No such thing on the Superhawk.

I really don't want to have to pay the shop labor rate just for them to tell me that they can't find anythign wrong with it.

KB

[Stoneman]

You mentioned removing/reinstalling needles. Are you positive you put 'em back in right (clips) ?

[KB]

I played with the needles again last night. And no I'm not talking about the needle in my pants.

I had actually adjusted the clip up a position to see if maybe it was a lean condition causing the smoke as I was told will happen from Factory Jet's.

I moved em up one postion it ran like cah cah so I put it back. I even went so far as to take off my valve covers and made sure all the oil drain holes were clear. I thought maybe one might be plugged with debri preventing oil form draining back into the crankcase and remaining in the top of the cylinder head and seaping past the valve seals.

I dunno time for an inline I think!!! Yes I said it an INLINE.

KB

[TLRMan]

You mention when you stop fast?
Like pound on the brakes? or....downshift with the revs cranking?

If the smoke is black..it's fuel...if it's blue, it's oil...
What do your plugs look like?
if they are a black color, then it's excess fuel. if you see a crusty tan buildup on electodes, it is oil.

If it is an oil control problem
Could be sucking oil past the valve guides, or could be by the rings...Make sure the crankcase vent tubes are not pinched or blocked. If it can't breath from the crankcase, built up pressure can cause it to smoke.

if it's fuel, could be fuel bowl float levels, or low-end adjustment or pilot jet is the wrong size....but if this was the case, the bike wouldn't idle well.

I'm drifting towards an oil control issue

Other than that...get a leakdown done, and this will tell you if it's the rings that maybe the problem, I'm swaying more to valve guide/valve seals myself.

[KB]

Ok here is the update.

The smoke is blue and smells like oil.

I pulled the plugs. The plugs are a greyish color.

I also did a compression test. Both cylinders are equal and have the same compression. About 110 is what they read on the guage.

Can you explain this leakdown test??

I am ready to light this bike on fire.

I had a friend ride the bike this weekend HARD while I was following him on his bike. It smokes when you get on it hard. It smokes when you let off the gas at high revs. It smoke when you bang down through the gears and come to a stop. It doesn't smoke when you start it. Just when you come to a hard stop.

KB

[Stoneman]

Did it have this problem BEFORE you started tinkering with it?

[KB]

Honestly can't say that I noticed it or not. Other than the clutch everything is back to original.

Witht he exception of the needle's.

I'm going to put the stock ones back in and see if it solves the problem.

KB

[TLRMan]

Originally posted by rmbbikes
Honestly can't say that I noticed it or not. Other than the clutch everything is back to original.

Witht he exception of the needle's.

I'm going to put the stock ones back in and see if it solves the problem.

KB

If it's blue smoke..changing the needles out won't fix it..

Make sure you didn't kink the breather hoses when you put the airbox back on...
This will cause excess pressure in the crankcase, and will cause the engine to smoke.

Leak down test checks to make sure your rings are good, and are sealing the cylinder well.

[KB]

Yes a blueish smoke. There are two tubes one on top of each valve cover that are the breather tubes. They are both hooked up to the airbox and afe working.

Is it possible that the valve seals are toast at 33,000 miles.

How will the dealer test it out to see if in fact it is valve seals.

When I did a compression test both cylinders were at around 115 psi.

What to do now???


KB

[TLRMan]

Originally posted by rmbbikes
Yes a blueish smoke. There are two tubes one on top of each valve cover that are the breather tubes. They are both hooked up to the airbox and afe working.

Is it possible that the valve seals are toast at 33,000 miles.

How will the dealer test it out to see if in fact it is valve seals.

When I did a compression test both cylinders were at around 115 psi.

What to do now???


KB

I'm tending to sway towards valve seals, if your breather tubes are open and not clogged. May need valve guides too. Used to knurl them, but it's a pretty simple swap out when you got the heads off.

In other words, you are looking at a valve job....
I'd still have them check the lower end too..easy to see when the heads are off....Seems like I want to see the heads off huh?

Dealer or who ever you bring it too will do compression/leakdown test, and will verify what's up inside...

[KB]

Just a few questions.

I'm pretty mechanically inclined and all that hoopla. I have all the tools I could need to get the heads off.

Is this leakdown test going to tell me if I have bad valve guides and seals?

How can I do this test myself. Can you explain the concept?

TLRman I am at the same point as you leaning toward vavle guides and seals.

The last question is why does it do it more and worse when I come up to a stop. It also does not do it when the engine is cold. Just when it comes up to temp. I'd hate to pull the heads out and waste all that time and money only to find out it was something else.

I should probably have the cylinders honed and new pistons and ring put in while I'm in there no?

Thanks for all your help gentlemen.
KB

[TLRMan]

A leakdown won't tell you if your valve guides are done, unless the valves aren't seating well. It will tell you if your rings are up to par.

It's done with pressurizing the cylinders, and using a gage, to check the percentage of how much air gets thru.

[KB]

Here's one for the record books........................


When I did all that crazy work to the bike I also did an oil change. I have a two friends who own Tl's and they recommended that I try running 20-50w oil in my twin as they have with good results.

So I did also. I was laying in bed the other night thinking why why why my bike is smoking. Then I remembered I used that thick ass oil.

First thing the next morning I went to Autozone and bought some 10-40w oil.

Took the Hawk for a beat run. Hard stops and the whole nine. Gues what..........NO FUCKIN OIL SMOKE.

I can't explain it and perhaps someone else can. After I told my girlfriend about this she says to me. "Oh yeah I had a Camaro that I put 20-50 oil in and it smoked too when it was hot." so I don't undersand it but I am a happy guy once again.

No smoking bike.

Can anyone explain this?

KB

[TLRMan]

20w-50 once warm, pours like water....

You got me...unless the oil you put in it was very high on the detergent side..I've run Castrol in all of my 4 strokers from day one....and it was 20w50 that's in the crankcase. I run the Syntech now, same visc, in the Tiller without a hitch...

I bet everyone reading this thread was waiting for me to just say it does it, because it's a HONDA!

Go with what works brother,....A new one in my scrap book...

[KB]

I have no effign idea but low and behold no smoke.

Def. one to chalk up in the books.

I wish my honda had 10 more HP so then you TL guys couldn't talk any smack about it being a honda then we would be about even in torque and HP.

I wish the front end suspension on my Hawk was a s sweet as the Tl's other than that I am happy with the Hawk.

I like the full fairing Tl is that the S model ? I always wanted the blue and white one.

Ride on.

KB

[RandyO]

compression is only 110-115? I think it should be closer to 140-150 or higher, unless superchickens only have 8:1

[Stoneman]

Not for not, but I tend to run what the manufacturers suggest. Be it erl, gas, what have you. They'd know better than you and me (and sometimes even Mark), which is why I take their word in some instances...

[TLRMan]

Originally posted by Stoneman
They'd know better than you and me (and sometimes even Mark), which is why I take their word in some instances...

Hey!
I've blown more engines up than you have!!! Na nana na na!

Maybe the Hawk can't handle 20-50...but there is more going on there than just oil visc, and that's MY opinion....

BTW my TL is the "R" just like Stonemans....

Randy does bring up a point about your compression test, but did you hold the throttle wide open when you did it? If you didn't, it will show lower.

And being about the same, I dismissed what you wrote...the engine will run on that compression...

[KB]

I did not have the throttle wide open when I did the test. I'll do it again at WOT.

I don't understnad either but it's all better.

KB

[ducatiboy]

under deceleration, blue smoke indicates valve seal problems, I think

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by ducatiboy
under deceleration, blue smoke indicates valve seal problems, I think

Usually. Could be rings too though. Compression that low is troubling, even with the throttle closed.