LEDs and current draw

[Kurlon]

That's the idea, the charging system can only bring the voltage up into the 13v to 14v if everything is healthy to begin with...

[nhbubba]

Right. If your charging system is effed, your voltage will show way over ~15V (which means you are cooking your batteries) or well under say ~13V (which means your charging circuit can't keep up and/or you've overloaded the system with too many toys).

You could measure current and compare it against what your charging system is spec'ed to supply or whatever. But IMO that's a waste of time. Partly for reasons Jason and everyone else outlined.

Turn off all your stuff and run the bike. If its below ~13VDC when at cruising RPMs, bust open the shop manual and start diagnosing your R/R and/or stator. If it is above 13VDC at speed, but falls when you start attaching goodies or turning on gizmos.. then you probably have too much junk plugged in and your bike's just not capable of pushing that many accessories.

I like that signal dynamics thing I linked because it is almost idiot proof. Solid green light => good to go. Anything else and it's time to start investigating.

The stator on my V-Strom got fried this summer. The only reason I knew about it before being stranded was the little signal dynamics idiot light.


That said. The only way I know how to find out if you have too much of a phantom draw with the ignition off involves measuring and/or monitoring the current draw. For that you would need a beefy meter.

[breakdirt916]

got it...I just assumed the bike's charging system was perfect (why not? 18 year old FZR600 w' 50k+ miles, that's parked outside?)

got the led thingie on the way...will likely grab a multimeter tomorrow...and crack open that clymer

in the mean time I'll turn off the grips 20 mins before I hit my destination

[breakdirt916]

just took it for a 45 min ride...with the grips off, the battery became fully charged by the end of the ride and would re-start the bike without any issues

will pickup a multimeter tomorrow after work to do some testing

[nhbubba]

This is on a DRZ200, right? I'm wondering if the charging circuit isn't big enough to push warmers.. or if yours is marginal.

When I fried the stator on my V-Strom only 1 of the 3 coils was burned. The other two showed the correct voltage. And all three showed reasonably correct resistance. At idle I was not charging the battery, I was draining it. Once at ~4-6k RPM or higher for a 3 count it would build up enough to charge again. Adding any accessories would drag the circuit down easily.

Testing the coil is easy. The hardest part for me was getting to the wiring harness.

[breakdirt916]

No no...'95 fzr600

Tried to start the bike this morning - battery dead - was fine right after I got off the bike, so ow I'm suspecting bad battery too

[breakdirt916]

Got a multimeter...got home and didn't have a 9v battery...argh!

And had a sketchy bump start today....anyone ever have the bike launch when you're bump starting it?

[z3dsp33d]

Got a multimeter...got home and didn't have a 9v battery...argh!

And had a sketchy bump start today....anyone ever have the bike launch when you're bump starting it?

Bump start in 2nd gear.

[breakdirt916]

I do use 2nd gear...

the issue is that the bike doesn't fire right away, so after you pop the clutch, you're pushing it another 10-15 feet with the throttle 1/2 open...once she fires, she's 1/2 throttle in 2nd gear and wants to go fast!

battery keeps getting worse - after a 25 min ride home (with grip warmers on) battery was dead right after I got off the bike

going to test charging system tomm

[stoinkythepig]

No no...'95 fzr600

Tried to start the bike this morning - battery dead - was fine right after I got off the bike, so ow I'm suspecting bad battery too

Also consider that you made a mistake somewhere in your wiring and there's a constant drain on the battery.

[z3dsp33d]

I do use 2nd gear...

the issue is that the bike doesn't fire right away, so after you pop the clutch, you're pushing it another 10-15 feet with the throttle 1/2 open...once she fires, she's 1/2 throttle in 2nd gear and wants to go fast!

battery keeps getting worse - after a 25 min ride home (with grip warmers on) battery was dead right after I got off the bike

going to test charging system tomm

You should not need to have the throttle 1/2 open when bump starting in 2nd gear to get the bike running. Your bike is carbureted I believe. You should be able to bump start it at throttle zero position. You run the risk of flooding your engine with too much fuel bump starting with the throttle at %50, as well as loosing control once the engine decides it wants to run at %50 throttle.

How is the battery thing going?

[breakdirt916]

it sucks

multimeter needed a precision screwdriver to open the case to install the 9v battery...of course I don't have a narrow enough screwdriver to open it

will get one after work...

and no - my bike is 18 years old, valves have never been adjusted under my ownership, I'm pretty sure the bike is slowly eating the intake valves, she sits outside, and it's kickin 50k+ miles..the first crank it can fire, but you need 1/4-1/2 throttle to keep it running until it's warm...so when you bump start it, you have to roll the throttle to get her going.

[breakdirt916]

okay, finally tested it out today...

by now, the battery if pretty much nonexistent...even after a 35-40 min ride, it's dead

here's my test of the charging system:

1.) hook up multimeter - idle voltage ~13.9-14vdc - turn on grips (low), voltage drops to ~12.9-13vdc
2.) rev bike to ~5-6k - voltage ~16vdc (wow!?) - turn on grips (low), voltage drops to ~15vdc

so with the voltage dropping 1v with the grips on - is the bike failing to keep up? and also - shouldn't the voltage regulator keep the volts from getting to 16vdc? or is that normal?

anyways, back to the books...

according to the clymber:

"whenever the charging system is suspected of trouble, make sure the battery is fully charged before testing further."

fail

and lastly, this is the test procedure in the clymer:
-connect 0-20vdc voltmeter to the battery terminals
-start engine and increase engine speed to approximately 3,000rpm
-voltage should read 14.3-15.3vdc

so I technically didn't test with a fully charged battery, and I revved it a little higher than 3k, but charging system voltage did rise, so I'm good, right?

the only other things the clymer mentions are:
-if the voltage is out of range - check the main fuse, then test the alternator stator coil resistance
-if stator coil resistance is within specs, replace the regulator/rectifier

but I figure - if the main fuse was popped, the bike wouldn't run. If the stator was f'd, then it wouldn't put out as many volts as it is...and if the regulator/rectifier was f'd, the voltage would get so high that bulbs would pop.

[stoinkythepig]

okay, finally tested it out today...

by now, the battery if pretty much nonexistent...even after a 35-40 min ride, it's dead

here's my test of the charging system:

1.) hook up multimeter - idle voltage ~13.9-14vdc - turn on grips (low), voltage drops to ~12.9-13vdc
2.) rev bike to ~5-6k - voltage ~16vdc (wow!?) - turn on grips (low), voltage drops to ~15vdc

so with the voltage dropping 1v with the grips on - is the bike failing to keep up? and also - shouldn't the voltage regulator keep the volts from getting to 16vdc? or is that normal?

anyways, back to the books...

according to the clymber:


fail

and lastly, this is the test procedure in the clymer:
-connect 0-20vdc voltmeter to the battery terminals
-start engine and increase engine speed to approximately 3,000rpm
-voltage should read 14.3-15.3vdc

so I technically didn't test with a fully charged battery, and I revved it a little higher than 3k, but charging system voltage did rise, so I'm good, right?

the only other things the clymer mentions are:
-if the voltage is out of range - check the main fuse, then test the alternator stator coil resistance
-if stator coil resistance is within specs, replace the regulator/rectifier

but I figure - if the main fuse was popped, the bike wouldn't run. If the stator was f'd, then it wouldn't put out as many volts as it is...and if the regulator/rectifier was f'd, the voltage would get so high that bulbs would pop.

A load will drop the voltage so what you saw with the grips is normal. As long as the voltage does not drop below 12.5 volts or so, the battery is not discharging.

16 volts is a bit disturbing, but the bad battery may have something to do with that.

You tests indicate a good charging system and bad battery.

[nhbubba]

The 1V drop when you turn on the grips is to be expected. At idle, the generator is generating the least amount of power. You then steal power for the grips. Off idle the generator should generate more power; enough for the accessories and the battery. Voltage should go back up.

I wouldn't sweat the 1V drop at idle.

I disagree with stoinky though; the 16V off idle is more than troubling. It is not normal at all. Yes, your regulator/rectifier should be keeping the voltage under say 15V. That it does suggests that it is broken. IIRC you can fry batteries this way.

the only other things the clymer mentions are:
-if the voltage is out of range - check the main fuse, then test the alternator stator coil resistance
-if stator coil resistance is within specs, replace the regulator/rectifier\

I agree with this procedure. I suspect checking the main fuse is because you could have blown the fuse because the regulator is letting too much power past, into the charging circuit. Since the bike runs, I agree that it is unlikely that the fuse is blown. But checking is easy. Why not?

The second step is far more interesting. I bet your coil resistance is okay and you have a new R/R purchase sometime in your future.

That's my guess from this side of the ether.

[breakdirt916]

I'm curious if the zinger voltage could've fried the old battery...it was only about 2 years old, but it wasn't on a tender and was run dead/recharged several times after sitting awhile

Faulty regulators are a known issue on the fzr's...but supposedly resolved by 94

I'm off to wal mart after work for a new battery

[nhbubba]

I think faulty regulators are a known issue on almost all motorcycles.
I wouldn't chuck the battery until you verify the R/R and stator are good. But that's me.

[breakdirt916]

Well, if the battery is dead after a 35 min ride @ 6k rpm, doesn't that mean I need a new battery?

Or might the battery work if I trickle charge it with a battery tender?

[tsorfas]

Might be time for a Busa.

[z3dsp33d]

Might be time for a Busa.

Or a car....

[nhbubba]

Well, if the battery is dead after a 35 min ride @ 6k rpm, doesn't that mean I need a new battery?

No. It means that your charging circuit isn't charging the battery and you rode around using the battery to power the bike. It might be porked.. but it might not.

I say fix the problem first.

[tsorfas]

Or a car....

ill meet you in the middle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM

[z3dsp33d]

ill meet you in the middle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM

We can work with that.

[breakdirt916]

well battery was dead before the bike was started, then bump started, and dead after running it - still charging system fail?

I bought the bike for less than a used dirt bike costs...rode it 40k+ miles, just did tires and brakes...cheap insurance...never gave me major hassles...I think I got my money's worth





but I'm not giving up on her yet!

I'm still going to try another R/R and battery first...

[nhbubba]

Have you tested your stator coil? If you have a multimeter, testing shouldn't be that hard.

As I understand motorcycle charging circuits, it is primarily a stator coil and the R/R. If the coil checks out and the output voltage is still out of spec high.. I think it stands to reason that your R/R is shot. ... Although I've been wrong before.