Pads/Rotors/MC questions

[Petorius]

My front brake system is stock except for braided lines. I feel like it requires excessive force (3 fingers) to stop the thing quickly from speed. So here are some silly questions:

How would upgraded pads (of the racey variety) affect the feel?

How would fancy rotors affect the feel?

How would a radial MC affect the feel?

[loudbeard]

My bike already had fancy pads and rotors when I bought it, so I don't know how the upgrade feels. I did upgrade to a Brembo RCS this season though and it is phenomenal. While clamping force is only marginally better it is a huge improvement in progressive braking. Much better feel throughout the range, it completely changed my trail braking game. Highly recommend.

[number9]

Start from first principles. When did you last change your brake fluid? Is there any air in it?

3 fingers sounds like too much, even on a stock system. Get your stock system 100%, and once it's there, see if you need to upgrade it.

[carsick]

I'm guessing these are the stock brakes on a 2nd gen SV?

[Petorius]

I'm guessing these are the stock brakes on a 2nd gen SV?

Thats correct. And I have little girl fingers.

[Jim]

my opinion on brake priorities

1. brembo master
2. pads
3. fluid
4. rotors

[Petorius]

Start from first principles. When did you last change your brake fluid? Is there any air in it?

3 fingers sounds like too much, even on a stock system. Get your stock system 100%, and once it's there, see if you need to upgrade it.

Stock system is close to 100%, RBF600 bled every few weekends.

[union]

my opinion on brake priorities

1. brembo master
2. pads
3. fluid
4. rotors

Wow I actually agree with Jim on something. The master cylinder will affect the feel the most and over the entire range. Pads affect feel a bit but it depends on their operating temp range and how hard you use the brakes. Once you get good with braking you'll find that pads designed for street use will start to lose feel as they get hotter whereas pads for racing will feel better. I don't mess with the fancy fluids and have only run on stock rotors.

[TheIglu]

1. Fluid
2. Pads
3. Anything else


From an actual 2nd gen SV owner.

[aldend123]

If your pads are original to you, or getting old, I'd replace those first since it's low cost, easy, and won't be a completely sunk cost. I had a similar problem and was looking at replacing my master. I recently replaced the pads instead and it fixed the problems I was having with a long dead-zone on the initial lever pull, as well as a lack of bite when the pads were cold. I remember nhbubba having a thread describing similar issue and I think pads ended up being his fix too.

[Jim]

cheapest improvement for you would be getting an 05+ GSX-R 600/750/1000 master cylinder. they're $50 used.

[Pigman]

Save the some time and just buy a 19RCS from RidersDiscount and one finger it around the track...or i would look for a 06 and up GSXR/R6 master if you want to save a few bucks but thats a crap shoot..

also, there was a good read on the WERA board for Pads and how they feel or bite break down...

I like the Vesrahs better than the EBC HH, less enitial bite but more after you get into them hard... but all pads are slightly Diff

[Pigman]

Put a Bad master behind any of these three and you will still have SHIT BREAKS so nope.... always start with a good master cylinder and you can run stock rotors and race pads and any fluid and still have killer breaks...LOLOLOL


From an actual Racer.

1. Fluid
2. Pads
3. Anything else


From an actual 2nd gen SV owner.

[Chippertheripper]

What Jim said.
Buy a 19x18 brembo or accosato and throw whatever pads you want on there and be done with it.

From an actual former 2nd gen SV owner.

[TheIglu]

Put a Bad master behind any of these three and you will still have SHIT BREAKS so nope.... always start with a good master cylinder and you can run stock rotors and race pads and any fluid and still have killer breaks...LOLOLOL


From an actual Racer.

My SV must be the odd one out then. Stock master. Stock calipers. Stock rotors. Great brakes.


What gen SV do you race?

[TheIglu]

If your pads are original to you, or getting old, I'd replace those first since it's low cost, easy, and won't be a completely sunk cost. I had a similar problem and was looking at replacing my master. I recently replaced the pads instead and it fixed the problems I was having with a long dead-zone on the initial lever pull, as well as a lack of bite when the pads were cold. I remember nhbubba having a thread describing similar issue and I think pads ended up being his fix too.

No, just replace the master. It will fix everything.

[Pigman]

My SV must be the odd one out then. Stock master. Stock calipers. Stock rotors. Great brakes.


What gen SV do you race?

I don't I run a MW bike....


So what you are saying is i can go buy

1. 3000 Brembo Monoblock calipers
2. Moto GP pads
3. Carbon rotors
4. MOON fluid from Italy


and a blown junk MC and my breaks will be awesome Right????


Just as most or all Suzuki MC they were very hit or miss...Fact

and whats the driving force behind a breaking system.......?????

[TheIglu]

You are assuming his MC is junk.

It very well could be.

He stated he is on STOCK pads. Those ARE junk. No "maybe they are decent race pads".

If his master is in proper operating condition, a decent set of pads and making sure his calipers are clean with well lubed sliding pins should remedy his situation.

A decent master on junk pads will not help.


Your logic fails. It's like saying that a car with a clogged air filter would get fixed by replacing the engine. Start with the known bad parts first, then work back from there.

[Pigman]

Yes...three fingers is a give away its a hunk of dung. He will need to service the calipers, new pads and a MC and I bet I could flip that bike with 1 finger.. I have gone through many many MC and as soon as the Brembo goes on its night and day...

[Kurlon]

Don't assume because Suzuki sourced shite masters for the Gixahs that the masters they opted for on the SVs are just as suspect...

[TheIglu]

3 fingers is a giveaway that something (or more than 1 thing) in his braking system isn't doing it's part. That's all.

Pads/pins first. A great master won't do shit for junk stock SV pads.

If you replace the pads and the thing still sucks, master is called for but at least you got decent pads which were needed anyways. If you replace the master and it still sucks, you replaced a working part for nothing.

[Jim]

suzuki/honda stock pads are very good. they'd be my 3rd choice out of all the options for pads.

[TheIglu]

For a GSXR or an SV?

[Jim]

for a suzuki.


and his best shot is trying an 05+ GSXR master first. it's the cheapest and will be an improvement from the non-radial that he's using.

[loudbeard]

Stating an axial master is fine, or up to the task is subjective and really boils down to the rider's ability to receive feedback from bike. I don't intend that to be a pejorative remark, however the fact remains a radial master provides much better feedback when modulating braking vs an axial, this effect is compounded in dual rotor setups which require moving a lot more fluid. Absolute clamping force is fairly close to the same, although a bit better on a top grade billet machined master vs factory one.

All else holds true, if your pads, lines, rotors, and calipers are crap there's little to gain by just installing a radial master. All depends on what you want; good, or great. Cheap, or expensive.