Help Needed!! Bike starts/runs- I give throttle and it dies????

[viva_brasil]

Hey everyone, (if you want to just read the issue right now first it's down at the bottom where it says HERE's THE ISSUE).

I've had this new 97 Honda F3 for about a week. I love it, it runs great. Today I started it up- choke on, let it run for about 2 mins (just sitting) then took the choke off before riding it. I always do this... Then I parked it for about 2 minutes, came back and started it without the choke and it was running fine- idling where it should be- around 12-1500.

Took it out on the street and as i get to the first stop sign rpms slowly drop, and it dies. I try starting it, won't start at first. Choke on and it jumps up to 4,000 rpm. I let it warm up (pull off to the side) and then take the choke off but it kept dying (rpms were too low), so then I messed wit hthe idle adjuster- trying to raise the idle- but it didn't work, kept dying. At one point with the choke on I gave a little gas and thought about riding it with the choke on but decided not to. So then I walked it over and parked and walked back to drop my helmet off and walk it back (since then it really wasn't starting and the battery was starting to suffer).

I did some research on the idle adjuster and walked back to the bike and decided to try to "close it". So I turned it all the way to the right and then put the choke on and tried one last time to start it. It started right up and reved way high, so i turned it off, and turned the idle adjuster to the left and started it up. Back to the 4,500 rpm, running fine with the choke on.
I turned the choke off as it warmed up again and the rpms were around 2,000.

HERE'S THE ISSUE: I give a tiny bit of throttle and it revs up some, but if I give a tiny bit more throttle it stutters and drops rpms (like 2% throttle is fine, 5% and it stutters/dies). If I hold it at that extra amount of throttle, it dies. If I let go of the throttle right as it stutters it will maintain idle. The idle itself is not very consistent- it drops veeerrry slowly. Even when I was riding it if I reved the motor in neutral it seemed to upset the idle (and that's what caused it to die the first time at that stop sign). Each slight "rev" would lower the idle a little more to the point where I couldn't rev it and it would die.

It seems like the 5%+ throttle fuel mixture is bad... How can I fix this? I'm sure it's carb related. The bike otherwise runs perfect, I'm just not very familiar with carbs. I don't have many tools either so I hope it's not too difficult to fix!

I would REALLY appreciate ANY help! Thank you!

[butcher bergs]

Holy shit! I literally just saw this post on CBRForum like 5 minutes ago!

Small world I suppose...

EDIT: What's the possibility a fuel line got crimped?

Really what my question is is "did you do any work to the bike which could have created this issue?"

[viva_brasil]

that was me... lol. Just posting on the two forums I know well...

Any suggestions/thoughts?? I'd like to ride this weekend!

[butcher bergs]

Edited my previous response...sorry I'm a bit slow.

[viva_brasil]

no i didn't do any work, it was running perfectly yesterday- rode it all day...

[butcher bergs]

I hope the tank has fuel in it...


Two things I'd look at:

Are any of the choke valves on any of the 4 carbs sticking (either open or closed)

Get the thing to idle properly first. What I do is turn the screw a bit and blip the throttle...I repeat that process until I'm happy.



IMO, 2 minutes is a bit much for full choke. Very well could have fouled the plugs....it might be able to somewhat idle but not necessarily be able to burn the extra fuel required to move the bike....just a thought.

[viva_brasil]

Ok now it's not starting and the battery is dying... this sucks.

If the plugs are fouled I have to take them out and clean them right?

Any other ideas?

[butcher bergs]

I replace fouled plugs with new but that's just me.

Trickle charge that battery while you're at it.

Without being there to hear/ see it, I'd say I'm about run out of ideas...well, not really but the whole "dianose a problem using a forum" can be daunting and one can also be steered in the completely wrong direction.

I'm thinking plugs...

[TTD]

Fresh plugs can't hurt if you don't know the history of them.

This is not an idle adjustment issue though.

I'm thinking carb problem is an option.

Or, possibly a hose/vacuum issue.

Surprising that it just "happened" though. Usually that is after removing tank/bodywork.

The sudden happening leans me toward plugs, I guess?

[viva_brasil]

previous owner told me he replaced the plugs a couple days before it was delivered so they should be new. But new plugs can get fouled right? I can just clean them right?

Yeah the fact that it happened all of a sudden is weird to me too... i rode all day yesterday and i noticed at times if the temp dropped (it was pretty chilly) and I blipped the throttle to rev it a little, the idle would want to drop. I think it actually died once but I just had to start it and it would be fine.

Same thing happened today except when I started it up again, it wouldn't hold idle and I had to turn the choke on. Then I would turn the choke off, it would die. I'd turn choke back on because that's the only way it would start again- then again lower the choke after it got warm and it would die again. Then even putting the choke on it wouldn't start (all while I was messing with the idle adjusting knob).

I come back to it 10 mins. later, turn the knob all the way to the right, choke on, crank it and it fires up immediately and revs waaay high (because of the idle adjustment) and then I turn the knob down and turn the choke off. It idles but stutters at anything more than 2-3% throttle (no more than 3,500 rpms).

And now it won't start at all. I think fouled plugs makes sense because of all the choke. Using too much choke can foul plugs right? I didn't drive with choke on, but I used it a lot to get it running.

[TTD]

hmmm...something's fishy.

When the tank is off, check all vacuum hoses too.

There's a couple that are routed right near the edges of the airbox. I remember leaving one off one time and the bike wouldn't run right.

You could also have gummed up carbs and/or bad gas.

After changing/cleaning plugs, don't button it all up... my guess is that it won't solve the problem.

[butcher bergs]

Using too much choke can foul plugs right?

Yes...even new ones.

My rule of thumb for the choke is to use it as little as possible.

2 minutes at full choke (and repeating that) can certainly foul plugs in short time.

After changing/cleaning plugs, don't button it all up.

Yeah...what he said.

[JohnnyV]

I would definately say pull the carbs and give em a good cleaning. Your pilot jets could be fine but the main's might be clogged with shit. Worth a shot. It really isn't that bad of a job removing the carbs from that bike.

[breakdirt916]

I'd say it's either getting too much air or too much gas

with the choke on: if you roll the throttle, does it engine accelerate?

[viva_brasil]

It wouldn't start at all when I went back after posting the question. I just called it a day and tomorrow I'll charge the battery up and try again.

My only question is that if it's carb related why would it have happened all of a sudden? Can the carbs get gummed up and need to be cleaned out from one day to another and making the bike just go from running perfectly to not starting? Unless using too much choke can also do something to the carbs (gum it up, require cleaning, etc.).

Do you guys actually ride the bike with some choke on when it's cold? Aren't you not supposed to touch the throttle when the choke is on? I have a feeling that it was something I did wrong, like using too much choke- or having the idle adjuster all the way turned and then starting it up with the choke on and the bike reving to 9-10,000 (i had intended to turn the idle adjuster all the way down, but instead turned it all the way up)...

Thank you guys very much for all the help. I'm sure she'll be running soon and I'll learn a lot in the process...

[butcher bergs]

My only question is that if it's carb related why would it have happened all of a sudden?

The current no-start issue is not carb related...that I'm sure of based on the posts here.

Your bike went from running good, to running crappy, to barely idleing, to choke-only running, to no running at all.

It's fouled plugs from too much choke.

(also, that's technically not your "only question"...)

Can the carbs get gummed up and need to be cleaned out from one day to another and making the bike just go from running perfectly to not starting?

No.

Do you guys actually ride the bike with some choke on when it's cold?

Whoever is should stop.

One last thing, if the mechanic buddy you mentioned breaks out a can of starting fluid, do not let him anywhere near your bike, kindly thank him and turn him away.

Let it be known that starting fluid is for amateurs and lazy mechanics.

[DucDave]

Having read this post my suggestion is you take this to a dealer before you make it worse. If its something simple they'll sort it out in short order. Your response to the idea of fouled plugs,

If the plugs are fouled I have to take them out and clean them right?

suggests to me that you have even less mechanical apptitude than me...which is pretty bad! Further, you lack the tools needed and tearing down carbs may be easy for someone who has the experience but, like Trivial Pursuit, its easy if you know the answer...and just a shitstorm of bad guesses if you don't.

Or...maybe some of the mechanically inclined here might offer to hook up and help you out....

[SSearchVT]

If the bike sat for a long time before you bought it the gas in the tank could have varnished. Running it around for a few days could have freed up enough gunk in the tank to plug the tank filter or mess up one or more of the carbs. Was it backfiring at all (typical response to a plugged pilot jet)?

If it was in storage - did critters make a home in the air box? I cleaned about 4 pounds of sunflower seeds out of a Saab airbox one time - ran great afterwards.

Are all the plugs still tight in the head? The previous owner replaced them just days before you picked up the bike...

With all the starting attempts - the bike is likely flooded. Maybe even to the point of filling the exhaust with unburned fuel. Pull the plugs, see if they're wet. Might want to pull or have the pipes pulled to see... While the plugs are out - turn the bike over, and make sure you have a spark...

Good luck

[Ericthejet]

Battery fully charged?
Air filter clean and free flowing?
Wet plugs and a weak battery can sometimes also cause this condition.

I remember having this same issue a few years back in the spring. It was the weak battery in the end.

[viva_brasil]

With the bike not running I can't take it anywhere so I called up a bike mechanic to come take a look at it.

I'll check out the air filter and trickle charge the battery once it stops raining.

Thanks guys...

[Jim]

With the bike not running I can't take it anywhere so I called up a bike mechanic to come take a look at it.

I'll check out the air filter and trickle charge the battery once it stops raining.

Thanks guys...

next step: get a bike with FI

[viva_brasil]

lol, i'm planning on that within this season if the F3 keeps giving me a hard time... I had an awesome time riding it the past week though.

I think it may possibly have something to do with crappy/old fuel that worked its way in to the carbs this past week of riding (aside from not starting, but the overall situation)...

I am mechanically inclined- i just don't have much experience with carbs and bikes in general...

[akira700]

You keep your bike outside?

With all the rain and the warm then cold temp changes I'd bet you got water in the line from condensation.

[OreoGaborio]

Request the services of one TLRMan. He'll get ya sorted in no time for much cheaper than any dealership or shop

[viva_brasil]

You keep your bike outside?

With all the rain and the warm then cold temp changes I'd bet you got water in the line from condensation.

I do keep it outside but I keep it covered... dowco all weather guardian plus something... it's the really nice one.

Request the services of one TLRMan. He'll get ya sorted in no time for much cheaper than any dealership or shop

I'll see if he can help... thanks!