Tapping the block?

[CEO]

Something shitty happened tonight when I was installing one of my woodcraft case covers.

I set my torque wrench to the specified torque and went to tighten one of the bolts that holds the case cover on. Almost right away a hear a little snap... note that the torque wrench hadn't yet clicked to say that it was at the required torque. Now turning the bolt it just spins. I pull the bolt out and the threads are full of metal. WTF?!?!

I'm fuckin' pissed. So... can I just fill the hole in the block with JB weld, drill a pilot hole, and then tap it and try again? Does it matter that the block is aluminum (I think)?

Or will the case cover not leak if only one bolt is like this?

Furthermore, does anyone have a metric tap/die set I can borrow?

[wookie]

helicoil

[CEO]

I'm not quite sure if there is enough material around the hole to tap a larger hole and then thread the helicoil into it...? I'd have to check tomorrow.

Also... if it would work... where is the closest/quickest place to get a helicoil kit?

[Jim]

y6ou ditched a night of free dringks with me and 3 chicks to work on yourg bike? wht a

[Jayspeed]

Call a dealer and ask someone in their service department what they would do to fix it.

[Tricky Mike]

TimeSert would be even better... ++ TIME-SERT Threaded inserts for stripped threads, threaded inserts, thread repair , stripped sparkplug's, Ford sparkplug blowouts, threaded inserts threaded, repair stripped threads, stripped threads, inserts threaded inserts, Ford spark plug repai
This place is in Tyngsboro... they'll probably have what you need (M5x.8? M6x1.0?) BelMetric | Thread Repair

They usually have a small assortment of helicoils at decent auto parts joints.
No big deal, but this is definitely a "slow down, get a cup of coffee and read the instructions twice" type of job. Biggest thing will be to make sure that tap starts nice and straight. I have a full metric tap and die set if you need a hand.

[CEO]

TimeSert would be even better... ++ TIME-SERT Threaded inserts for stripped threads, threaded inserts, thread repair , stripped sparkplug's, Ford sparkplug blowouts, threaded inserts threaded, repair stripped threads, stripped threads, inserts threaded inserts, Ford spark plug repai
This place is in Tyngsboro... they'll probably have what you need (M5x.8? M6x1.0?) BelMetric | Thread Repair

They usually have a small assortment of helicoils at decent auto parts joints.
No big deal, but this is definitely a "slow down, get a cup of coffee and read the instructions twice" type of job. Biggest thing will be to make sure that tap starts nice and straight. I have a full metric tap and die set if you need a hand.

What benefits do time-sert have over helicoils?

I don't know if I feel like driving to Tyngsboro from Wayland...

PM sent.

[Tricky Mike]

I prefer them b/c of the flange at the top... means it can't turn down into the hole (which I've seen Helicoils do from time to time). They also lock themselves in place (kind of like a blind rivet nut). They're just more betterer in general.

[CEO]

I prefer them b/c of the flange at the top... means it can't turn down into the hole (which I've seen Helicoils do from time to time). They also lock themselves in place (kind of like a blind rivet nut). They're just more betterer in general.

Interesting.

Does the flange at the top mean that they can't sit flush with the surface into which you're trying to tap?

[Tricky Mike]

Interesting.

Does the flange at the top mean that they can't sit flush with the surface into which you're trying to tap?

That's a really good point...
If I remember correctly, yes.
After seeing a few helicoils "walk" I started installing them with some loctite... much better results. I still hate the install tab that you have to break off... if the hole goes all the way through you definitely don't want that piece in your motor. It's wicked haaaahd steel.

[CEO]

That's a really good point...
If I remember correctly, yes.
After seeing a few helicoils "walk" I started installing them with some loctite... much better results. I still hate the install tab that you have to break off... if the hole goes all the way through you definitely don't want that piece in your motor. It's wicked haaaahd steel.

I guess there are two options then:

1. install a helicoil with some red loctite to ensure it doesn't move around and carefully remove the install tab.

2. Use a time-sert and drill a shallow larger hole at the top to allow countersinking of the flange...?

Which one do you think is a better idea?



I appreciate your help, Mike

[Tricky Mike]

You could also just tap it for the next size up. Any idea what size the bolt is?
If you helicoil it, you'll essentially be tapping a larger hole and the insert brings it back down to size... something to consider if there really isn't enough metal to make the hole bigger.

I'd probably just helicoil it... Less chance of mistakenly using the larger bolt in one of the smaller holes later on down the line.

I don't think I'd try to countersink a timesert. If you could do it on on the mill, using an endmill producing a nice flat-bottom hole, I'd say that was the way to go, but doing it with a hand drill, the risk of buggering up the hole outweighs the advantages of using a timesert, IMO. I'd just helicoil it in that case.
The other thing we could do is drill that hole out just enough to clear out the threads and machine you an alumnium plug that could be TIG'ed or JB welded into your case, then drilled and tapped for the appropriate bolt... Probably more trouble than it's worth, though.

[Jim]

I guess there are two options then:

1. install a helicoil with some red loctite to ensure it doesn't move around and carefully remove the install tab.

2. Use a time-sert and drill a shallow larger hole at the top to allow countersinking of the flange...?

Which one do you think is a better idea?

3. Stop being such a tough guy & breaking your bolts

[KB]

Call a dealer and ask someone in their service department what they would do to fix it.

Yeah thier response would be "bring it down and bring a blank check, a condom, some sand, and bend over".

KB

[Jim]

condom

what the F are those

[brendanp]

If you can send me the cover, I can make you an aluminum jig that will bolt down to 2 other existing holes. The jig will have a hardened steel drill bushing in the hole you need to drill out. You bolt it on, and you will be able to use a hand drill with the same size drillbit that is used to tap the existing hole. Then you can chase it back with the oem size tap.

Helicoil dont mean shit. The problem you have is that you need to drill the existing fukked up hole right on center of factory.....

[CEO]

Brendan I appreciate the offer, but it's too late ... I was able to drill it nice and straight and apparently centered enough. Also, while the method you suggested would be very accurate and work nicely, it would get metal shavings inside my engine...





Well it all worked out... drilled the hole, tapped carefully, installed helicoil with some red loctite as well, let sit overnight, installed cover today. All set.... but still, one of those fuckin' annoying things that wastes a bunch of time.

Picked up a torque wrench meant for the lower end of the spectrum as well... apparently one that's good for 10-80 ftlbs is NOT very accurate at 10 ftlbs...


The offending hole



Here's the threads that came out



Drilled er out



Tapped and installed helicoil, done and done.






Oh and mike (trickphoto) thanks again for your help

[Tricky Mike]

Looks good!
Nice work.

[yesterdayze]

Brendan I appreciate the offer, but it's too late ... I was able to drill it nice and straight and apparently centered enough. Also, while the method you suggested would be very accurate and work nicely, it would get metal shavings inside my engine...





Well it all worked out... drilled the hole, tapped carefully, installed helicoil with some red loctite as well, let sit overnight, installed cover today. All set.... but still, one of those fuckin' annoying things that wastes a bunch of time.

Picked up a torque wrench meant for the lower end of the spectrum as well... apparently one that's good for 10-80 ftlbs is NOT very accurate at 10 ftlbs...




Oh and mike (trickphoto) thanks again for your help

Looks nice, quick tip, don't know, you may have done it anyways, but when you put a helicoil in, some white loctite or even some of the jbweld used nicely (and allowed to dry BEFORE bolting into) can make the repair even more permenant. They also make a jbweld type (not made by JBWeld though I don't believe) repair kit that surprisingly enough works really well for this. It is a 2 part epoxy, you put some in the hole, put this grease stuff on your bolt so it doesn't stick to the bolt, and thread it in loosely. Let it harden an hour or so and back it out. Let it finish hardening and vwalla, new threads that should easily hold the bolt to proper specs....yep, had to repair a few threads in my time...not that I overtighten them often, I just happen to repair cars/motorcylcles for people far too often.

Glad you got this set...feeling the spinning after the pop can be a gut wrenching "oh crap" moment huh?

(and yeah, I know this is an old thread, but I figure others will run into this again, glad you put the photos up.)


EDIT * I'm blind apparently, just saw the red loctite comment.