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My LionHeart Moto Experience

  1. #1
    I've been here before. Mustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Milford, CT

    My LionHeart Moto Experience

    TL;DR - Over a period of nine full months, neither of the LHM custom suits I received fit. LHM and I were dually at fault on the first suit; the company wouldn't refund my money after delivering a second ill-fitting suit.

    Any quotes below are [sic].

    The Full Story
    In Q4 of last year, someone posted on my local forum about a new company making m/c leathers, LionHeart Moto. I contacted Scott, the owner, on 11/14/13 to inquire about a sponsorship arrangement for myself and my RSP Racing teammates - intending to get a good deal on custom leather for us, and allow LHM to be promoted in the Northeast (where I'd never heard of or seen them before). After a few e-mails, we agreed on an arrangement 11/19/14; and Scott provided a document instructing us how to take 17 different measurements.

    12/16/13 - I provided measurements (taken by a local tailor), photos as requested, and several design ideas based on their "SS" model version 1 suit. A few days of back-and-forth emails ensued, as we worked out tweaks to the design.
    12/30/13 - I paid for the suit.
    1/3/14 - LHM requested I confirm a questionable sleeve measurement.

    2/12/14 - Scott provides photos with a note that my suit will ship the next day.

    2/??/14 - Unfortunately, I no longer have the text message string from this time period; but somewhere in the next two weeks I received my suit. I tore open the box, super excited - and all fears I'd had for the past decade of riding about ordering a custom suit were made real. The suit did not look exactly as the digital design, and more importantly it did not fit properly at all.

    2/23/14 - I got remeasured, to check the original submission, and sent the below to Scott. As you can see, some ill-fitting areas were my fault, and some were not. Additional comments for your benefit are in bold:

    1. Chest. Original 39", today 37". [Additional comment: there are at least 4-8 extra inches in the chest – not my error]
    2. Hips. Original 40", today 37.5". Apparently my tailor just sucked here. [My error]
    3. Waist. Original 35", today 35". The suit is huge in this area. [There are at least 4-8 extra inches in this area. I can fit a throw pillow inside the front of the suit with me. Not my error.]
    4. Waist to Neck, Back. Original 21.5", today 19.75". Would this discrepancy make the neck be off? As you can see in the pictures, I can fit my whole hand in the front of the neck. [No real Neck Circumference measurement was requested. At least two extra inches exist in the suit. Unknown whether my or LHM error.]
    5. Across shoulders. Original 18", today 19". The suit would be acceptable here if everything else was fine, but it does seem a hair tight.
    6. Sleeve length. Original 22", today 23". Totally my fault here, as I probably measured myself when you came back asking about this measurement. The sleeves are definitely too short, and I believe the elbows are slightly in the wrong place, which makes the forearms tight.
    7. Thigh. Original 21", today 22". The suit is huge in this area as well. [If anything, my measurement was too small…yet I can grab a fistful of suit. Not my error.]
    8. Inseam. Original and today are 29" [Suit legs are too long to comfortably fit in boots.]
    9. Knee. Original 15.5", today 14.5". Apparently my tailor sucked here as well. [My error.]
    10. Ankle. Original 10.5"...today really depends on where the measurement should be. Across my actual ankle bone, it's 10"...across the most narrow part of my leg (over the ankle bone), it's 9". Suit is a bit big here. [Not my error – no direction provided as to where to measure the ankle.]
    11. Bicep. Original 14", today 13.75"
    12. Forearm. Original 11.5", today also depends on how it's measured. If I hold the tape flat (i.e. parallel to my wrist, as it looks in the measuring instructions), it's 11.5"; if I try to get the biggest part of my forearm, 11.75". [Suit is too small here. Not my error – no direction provided as to where to measure the ankle.]
    13. Wrist. Original and today are 6.75" [Suit is almost too small here.]
    14. Outseam from waist. Original 41.5", today 39.25". Not sure how the tailor screwed this one up, but the legs of the suit are definitely too long as a result.
    15. Total torso. Original 64", today 63"
    16. Front and back rise. Original and today are 28"
    17. Waist to knee and knee to ankle. Original 24.5 and 17, today 22.5 and 17.

    Not noted in the measurements are the calves (which are 1-2" too big), the back (the bottom of the speed hump sticks out several inches; this might be due to the extra space in the waist/chest?), and a few discolored spots. On the inside of the left knee, and near the top of both chest zippers, there is what looks like black bleed-through. Also, the green dye on a couple of the RSP logo letters didn't apply all the way - I can see the orange through the letter.
    2/23/14 - Scott and I spoke via phone, where he graciously offered to give me a new, V2 suit free of charge. I had prepared myself for anything from this response to "Tough luck - you got what you got;" so I was definitely happy that we would be working out a solution. I accepted his very generous offer, and that evening he sent me a new sizing chart - this time with 23 different measurements.

    A few days later - I inquire whether I can change the suit design for the V2, since I wasn't enamored with how the first came out. I offer to pay the difference in price, or some value of his time to work out a new design. Scott agrees to let me change the design, and does not request additional funding. Again, gracious.

    3/5/14 - I provide new design ideas.

    4/2/14 - Using the new measurements template, I obtained measurements from three independent sources. All measurements were within 0.5cm (one-half centimeter) of each other. I provided Scott the measurements.

    4/27/14 - Design still not finalized, since LHM is unable to get a lowercase "R" in my team logo's font. Never in the preceding two months was I asked for a font file. Scott states the lead time for the suit is at least five weeks right now, could be as much as 10-12 because of "the rush." I call this the "1st delivery date."

    5/13/14 - Scott acknowledges receiving the font files I've sent several times over the past two weeks.

    5/20/14 - Scott sends me this final design, asking whether I wanted the back RSP in green or orange. I replied (confirming what I'd stated weeks earlier), and asked that he confirm receipt of my reply, since I'd experienced a number of times where he didn't respond to an email in the past few months. I then sent two more emails asking if he'd gotten it

    5/22/14 - Suit design is finalized (nearly three months after I provided the draft). Nearly all communication moves to text message at this point, since our e-mail link appears to be compromised. I understand that I took a month to get Scott my new measurements, and that he's giving me a new suit for free...but it's also five months since I paid for the first suit, and I still don't have a usable one. And it's taken almost THREE MONTHS to complete my design. Now, granted I customized it a bit...but I haven't been a HUGE pain in the ass with it.

    6/6/14: 2nd delivery date: "manufacturer is quoting me 5-8 weeks but I expect it to be sooner than that."
    6/22/14 – I ask for a status, since I just crashed my old suit. Manufacturer is closed, so “I’ll have something tomorrow.” Later that day, Scott requests my sizing chart again “to confirm some numbers." I would’ve thought this type of thing was kept on file; especially for a customer who had issues with measurements in a prior transaction
    6/23/14: Notified that leather is being dyed. 3rd delivery date: “hard to tell really, maybe 3 more weeks”

    7/7/14 - After I request an update, I’m notified that the suit is "in the production phase so it means they are working on it as we speak. [the manufacturer's] mother just died”. Though tragic, I don’t know why the manufacturer’s personal life is pertinent to my transaction except as an excuse.
    7/11/14 – Still no expect completion date is provided. Suit is in “post-production”. LHM and the manufacturer have a meeting at 5am tomorrow.
    7/13/14 – After I request an update since none was provided yesterday, I get the 4th delivery date: “we are looking at finishing this month and i am pushing for them to finishing this week we are close”
    7/22/14 – “As of 3am this morning”, Scott expects a tracking number for my and two other suits. Awesome! I’ll have it for the fifth of seven race weekends this year!
    7/23/14 – I still haven’t received a tracking number. LHM/manufacturer meeting scheduled for 3pm. I initiate contact well after 3pm, and was told my suit was “in final stages and will be shipping soon”. I am told “final stages” usually means quality control. If it’s in QC, certainly the suit must be completed.
    7/30/14 – No update on shipping provided.
    7/31/14 – Scott states that he’ll “have info today or tomorrow” and is calling the factory tonight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    8/3/14 – No update on shipping provided.
    8/5/14 – Scott is still trying to contact the manufacturer. I get another comment about the manufacturer’s deceased mother. Today marks eight weeks from the “2nd delivery date” of “5-6 weeks” quoted on 6/6. Later this day I receive the 5th delivery date: “all suits will be with [Scott] next week.” He stated that he’d know an exact shipping date on 8/11, and would overnight the suit to me.

    I have a race weekend – the fifth of the year – coming up the following Sat/Sun. I feel it reasonable to include the actual text message exchange at this point:

    Bill: Very good; I look forward to it. If I'm not racing in the suit next Saturday I'll be calling you for a final resolution. Appreciate the follow-up today.

    Scott: final resolution?

    Bill: Yes. It's been four months since I sent measurements, and seven since I paid. I realize you're working with me on joint measurement errors, but I can't afford to have money tied up longer without an actual product.
    Scott: Bill...You resent measurements...we redesigned your suit...cut new patterns..allnfor free bc of the original measurements not being right...anyone else would have not gotten anything besides a discount on another suit....i did this for free so if we could refrain from "threats" that would excellent.

    Bill: Remember, some of the cuts and dye were problematic in addition to some of the measurements. Regardless, I'd really rather actually speak with you than text if it becomes an issue next week. I'm not trying to make threats; just stating my intent to call.

    Scott: roger thanks for clearing it up

    8/13/14 – Two days after he was supposed to get a final shipping date, Scott alerts me that DHL in Pakistan has my suit, but due to local civil unrest, the suit isn’t moving anywhere.

    8/19/14 – Civil unrest is ending. 6th delivery date – suit will be shipping “literally anyday”. LHM/manufacturer conversations are occurring daily at 6am and 6pm.

    8/25/14 – I request an update, since it’s been six days. “Already had it.” 7th delivery date: “expecting delivery this week and should have photos of the suits tomorrow.”

    8/27/14 – I notice on Facebook that other riders in this “shipment” have received photos of their suits. I inquire, since it’s been a full day after “tomorrow.” I receive another excuse for the delayed response, and am notified that the suits have left Pakistan, and he expects them by 8/29 or 9/1. He will overnight the suit upon receipt, and again says photos will come “tomorrow.” Indulge me – I consider this the 8th delivery date.

    8/28/14 – I ask for photos, since it is again “tomorrow.”
    8/29/14 – The manufacturer is “searching through his camera files” to find my photos. Scott inquires when my next race is – Round 6 of LRRS is literally the next day. Six rounds this year without a suit.

    8/30/14 – I ask again for pictures and shipping updates. Suit is in the UK. Scott doesn’t have photos. Jeff, the LHM Vice President, will be taking over the company as of Sept. 12. My suit is top priority.

    9/2/14 – After the holiday weekend, I ask whether I should be contacting Jeff directly; and whether the suits were received Fri or Mon as he expected. Suit is in customs in NY.

    9/3/14 – Since no comment was provided as to how long suits normally take in customs, and I imagine leather clothing valued around $1,000 likely take longer to go through customs from Asia than the $5 widgets I buy off eBay, I inquire about expected processing time. Scott replies with “usually 2-3 days in new york customs”. 9th delivery date.

    9/4/14 – I ask about an update again. It now appears as though everything’s in Jeff’s hands, as Scott has to wait until the evening to get an update from Jeff. My suit has been given clearance from customs. Scott will “have it Monday [9/8/14]” and overnight it to me

    9/8/14 – Scott is waiting on a call from Jeff for status and “tracking number for over night express mail.” Later that night, Scott comments Jeff is going to DHL directly to pick up the boxes, and will be with Scott the next day. He will have photos tomorrow.

    9/9/14 – I don’t receive any photos “tomorrow.”

    9/10/14 - Scott provides photos via email. I note that one of the patches is backwards. LHM performs their own quality checks. I ask for Jeff's contact info, since he seems to be "the man" now...and am told that my info has been forwarded to Jeff instead. One seam has to be repaired.

    9/11/14 – I ask in the morning whether my suit has already shipped. The VP is not awake yet. I have to initiate communication again this evening, since I still haven’t received a tracking number; I want to make sure I have someone here to sign for it. Scott will get it to me later tonight, since he’s out to dinner. All “express packages are garunteed by 3pm” for delivery.

    9/12/14, morning – I ask, again, for a tracking number since one was not provided last night. Scott suggests an email from Jeff might have gone to my spam email folder. Nothing is there; Scott will call Jeff. I could get around this if I was just provided Jeff’s contact information, or if Jeff would contact me directly.

    9/12/14, evening – I inquire again about delivery of my suit. It’s now 6pm Eastern, so the “express delivery” should have arrived. Scott provides a tracking number – but no courier name. I plug the number into FedEx, UPS, DHL, and USPS. The number does come up in the USPS system, but they were only "notified to expect your package" today. Which usually means, someone bought postage online and has to drop it off. So, it appears to me that not only was my suit not overnighted the day after it was received by LHM, but it wasn’t even dropped off at the Post Office. When I ask about this, I’m told that Jeff “is probably fishing right now”.

    9/13/14 - I receive 2nd suit. The quality is definitely better on the V2 than the V1.
    9/14/14 - I alert Scott that the 2nd suit does not fit. As with the first suit, the forearms are too tight. That area would probably stretch to make it livable. Unfortunately, I can't zip the legs at all. I can barely get my thighs into the legs (complete opposite of the first suit, where the thighs were baggy by 3-4"). I can't zipper the suit shut at all with my chest and back protectors on (I was wearing them getting measured). I request a refund, and request a shipping label to send both suits back to LHM. Scott requests that photos be emailed to him and Jeff.
    9/15/14 – I provide photos and a description of how the suit does not fit.
    9/1814 – I inquire whether anything else is needed. Jeff is comparing the patterns to the measurements I gave.
    9/24/14 - I reply to my own email, asking about a status of their review. Jeff (the VP) replies that day that they'll get back to me ASAP.
    9/26/14 - I ask for status.
    9/28/14 - I ask for status.
    10/1/14 - "The pattern shows it was made to the measurements you gave.
    Due to this no refund can be given."

    I don't understand how that statement could be made, since the exterior measurements of the suit's chest and calf are what I was measured at. I haven’t figured out a good way to measure the inside of the suit, but I would be open to doing so to confirm that my measurements (which, again, were obtained in triplicate) are accurate.

    Our team has ended our sponsorship arrangement with LHM, and I am disputing the charge with my credit card. I do not have high hopes, as it has been nearly nine full months since the original charge - so I'll likely have lost high triple-digit dollars with only two suits I cannot wear to show for it.

    The following album contains pictures of the first suit's problems, a comparison of the first suit to its design, and pictures of the second suit's problems. I'd be happy to clarify any of the issues depicted therein, if the issue is not apparent.
    LionHeart Moto Suits - Imgur

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    Bill Cool --- NEMRR EX #8 --- 2023 NEMRR GTO Champion, 2020-21 LRRS LWSS Champion --- RSP Racing / TTD / MTAG-Pirelli / Woodcraft / Sportbike Track Gear / Seacoast Sport Cycle

  2. #2

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Bills story makes me so happy that I chose adrenaline cycle and Spidi!

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  3. #3
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Well that fukin sucks.... Sorry, Bill. :/

    (Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad I'm an off-the-rack Dainese 52.)

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 10-02-14 at 06:06 AM.
    -Pete LRRS/CCS #81 - ECK Racing, TonysTrackDays
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  4. #4
    I pick things up.... mzdagrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Bennington, NH

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Sorry to hear about your troubles, Bill, that sucks.

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  5. #5
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Windham NH

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Thanks for sharing that

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  6. #6
    my attitude matches yours GixxerJosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    New Bedford MA

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    In the same boat here. I can not even get my body in the suit :-( In the email back and forth stage. Have to send new measurements, Not sure what to even give to get the proper fit. Just want the suit to fit so I don't have $1000 hard earned dollars down the freaken drain

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  7. #7
    Rookie Rada's Avatar
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    Sep 2010
    Granville, NY

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    That sucks Josh!! This company is a joke

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  8. #8
    Just Registered rolker's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
    Rochester, NH

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Thanks for posting your experiences. I had considered LionHeart to replace my Heoric gloves that fell apart after only a season and a half of use. Ended up going with Held, glad I did!

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    Roland Arsenault
    LRRS and USCRA #763
    2012, 2013 and 2015 Big Fish Small Pond Champion
    "The 4 board is an upshift marker, not a brake marker"

  9. #9
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Jun 2007
    Waterboro ME

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Yeah, but your season and a half involves SLIGHTLY more track time than some.

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  10. #10
    I've been here before. Mustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Milford, CT

    Re: My LionHeart Moto Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Well that fukin sucks.... Sorry, Bill. :/

    (Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad I'm an off-the-rack Dainese 52.)
    I'm equally glad I fit perfectly in an OTR A* 40... I thought I'd take a chance on cool colors.

    Quote Originally Posted by GixxerJosh View Post
    In the same boat here. I can not even get my body in the suit :-( In the email back and forth stage. Have to send new measurements, Not sure what to even give to get the proper fit. Just want the suit to fit so I don't have $1000 hard earned dollars down the freaken drain
    I've been meaning to ask you directly Josh, so thanks for sharing. While that sucks for you as well, I find it comforting that almost the exact same thing happened to someone else at the same time. I will mention that when conversing with the CC company again.

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    Bill Cool --- NEMRR EX #8 --- 2023 NEMRR GTO Champion, 2020-21 LRRS LWSS Champion --- RSP Racing / TTD / MTAG-Pirelli / Woodcraft / Sportbike Track Gear / Seacoast Sport Cycle

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