Feeler gauges for valve adjustment?

**stoinkythepig** · 03-30-04, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I figured those would go away once the valve heads wear into the cylinders a bit? That's a normal part of break-in, right?

And the bolts that fell down the cylinder while the carbs were out, I figure those'll come out eventually through the exhaust. Like that time I swallowed a penny.

It's more likely the valve heads will wear into the pistons on your engine; I mean, three or four cam gear teeth can't make that much of a difference, can they?

**Honclfibr** · 03-30-04, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
It's more likely the valve heads will wear into the pistons on your engine; I mean, three or four cam gear teeth can't make that much of a difference, can they?

Heh, pistons, right. I always forget which part goes up and down.

**twrayinma** · 03-30-04, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I always forget which part goes up and down.

no wonder you can't keep a girlfriend.

**Honclfibr** · 03-30-04, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by twrayinma
no wonder you can't keep a girlfriend.

she said she *liked* being on top

**Honclfibr** · 03-30-04, 12:11 PM

Woohoo! Just got back from a brief ride to pick up some lunch, bike is running great! Well, ok, it's just a bit touchy on off-idle throttle response, but I was kinda expecting that since I haven't had a chance to sync the carbs yet since the valve job.

I'm just so happy it didn't explode!

**stoinkythepig** · 03-30-04, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Honclfibr

Woohoo! Just got back from a brief ride to pick up some lunch, bike is running great! Well, ok, it's just a bit touchy on off-idle throttle response, but I was kinda expecting that since I haven't had a chance to sync the carbs yet since the valve job.

I'm just so happy it didn't explode!

great news!

**bemused** · 03-30-04, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Honclfibr

Woohoo! Just got back from a brief ride to pick up some lunch, bike is running great! Well, ok, it's just a bit touchy on off-idle throttle response, but I was kinda expecting that since I haven't had a chance to sync the carbs yet since the valve job.

I'm just so happy it didn't explode!

**Honclfibr** · 03-30-04, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by elaineo
Congratulations

<font size=-3>now... howbout that *other* bike.... </font>

Your bike is in the garage now, it was dropped off about 20 minutes ago.

I can see the problem right now though. Those spark plugs weren't a perfect match for the OEM despite what I was told, and the right side plug wire is blown right out. I'll pick up a set of the OEM plugs tomorrow on my way to work and I suspect you'll be all set after that.

Might as well pick up a filter while I'm there, you use synth or dino juice?

Probably needs a carb sync too while the tank's off...

**Honclfibr** · 03-30-04, 04:22 PM

Sorry to say, I think my early diagnosis was a bit hasty. I just pulled the spark plugs and they didn't just come unthreaded. The one where the boot popped out, the spark plug blew apart, the insulator section separated entirely off. It is missing the electrode entirely, and a piece of the firing prong broke off. The other plug is slightly better, but not much. There is a large mass of metal on the prong, and the electrode is again melted.

I looked a bit deeper into the spark plug mismatch issue, and it seems that the closest NGK part for this champion Z9Y is an C7SA. Your bike runs a CR8HSA. That means that it's one range hotter, and doesn't include a 5k resistor to ground in the plug. The resistor to ground to my knowledge is some sort of protection circuit to prevent noise from coupling into the electrical system, and shouldn't have this effect. And running one heat range hotter shouldn't cause catastrophic detonation to my knowledge. Still not a good cross-ref, but I can't see how it would cause this sort of problem.

The most likely cause to my eyes is either a lean condition or a lack of oil. I checked your sight glass and your oil level is full, so I would tend toward a lean condition.

The question remains of course what lasting damage this has done to your engine. My compression tester is at home, I'll bring it in and check compression tomorrow. I would hope that cylinder compression is still good...if it's not, honestly, you're going to have to look at the possibility of parting this bike out, or replacing the engine.

Beyond the compression, I can check your carburetors, it's possible you have a stuck needle and that caused a lean condition...though if that were the case, I'm not sure why you'd damage both plugs, since they're fed off of separate carburetors. Could be a clogged fuel filter too I guess, I just thought of that one, I'll take a look.

That's why I'm posting this here, so maybe others on the board can chime in with some advice on the matter. Honestly, we're in a bit over my head on this one. I'm more than willing to continue working on the bike, but know that it's possible I may do more damage than good. I don't know what caused the melted spark plugs, and unless we find out I'm very nervous about cranking the engine over. Though honestly, any damage has likely already been done.

I'll try to get a compression test done in the morning for you so you know whether the bike is likely fixable or whether you need to look at other options. I feel somewhat responsible for the whole thing, seeing as I was riding the bike at the time. If it does turn out that the bike is damaged beyond repair, you're more than welcome to take my EX500, I can certainly get it running again without much difficulty. It really only needs a good carb cleaning and I promise that's easier on this bike than the 250.

Anyway, sorry about the false hopes, I really feel bad about this whole thing. Let me know how you want to proceed from here, we can switch back to email if you'd rather, I just wanted everyone to see this in the hopes that someone might have a suggestion as to what the root cause of the problem is here...I'll pick up new spark plugs tomorrow, but I don't want to try and start the engine with them in unless I was 100% sure this was spark plug failure that caused this.

**Mungla** · 03-31-04, 10:29 PM

Honclfibr, you're talking about a 250 right?

If so, then the problems that you are experiencing are plug related. Yep. The EXACT same thing happened to me too. Before I knew to only run NGK plugs, I ran a set of Champion plugs that supposedly crossmatched to the CR8HSA plug. Wrong! I think the Champion # was 808 maybe?

But, anyways, I completely melted down the cylinder #2 plug. And the #1 cylinder plug was still functioning, but barely. I replaced those suckers with the correct CR8HSA plugs and all was well. I checked to make sure the valve clearance was alright, which it was. Then, I checked compression, and it was good too.

That dang parallel twin will take a massive amount of abuse. After the whole "plug meltdown" incident, I put another 10k miles on the bike before selling it.

I sure hope my 04 6R will hold up. I'm debating on how many miles I should check the valves at. Anyone have a suggestion? The service manual says 15k. The valves are still loose (after 3k miles), because I can hear them clanking when cold.

**stoinkythepig** · 04-01-04, 07:53 AM

Darrell,

If you plan to adjust the valves on the 250, do yourself a favor and drill out the spot welds on the coil brackets. This will allow you to remove the brackets which will then allow you to pull the valve cover without draining the coolant. In additio to the welds, there are two big bolts that attach the brackets and they are more than adequate for the task.

The exhaust valves are a real PITA to adjust. You can't get a wrench on the locknut, has to be a socket, and you need to keep the screw from turning while you tighten the nut. Motion Pro makes a set of tools that'll work perfectly. Alternatively, you can do what I did and grind a hex head into the end of a deep 9mm socket (not unlike a sparkplug socket) to get a wrench on the socket. This will allow you to stick a thin screwdriver through the socket to hold the screw while you tighten the nut.

Good luck,

Dave

**Honclfibr** · 04-01-04, 09:40 AM

Damn Dave, that sounds like a sucky job.

Glad it's not my bike

**Honclfibr** · 04-01-04, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Mungla
That dang parallel twin will take a massive amount of abuse. After the whole "plug meltdown" incident, I put another 10k miles on the bike before selling it.

This is encouraging news. I've got the compression tester now and I'm gonna check the cylinders just as soon as the battery charges a little.

Seems pretty odd that your valves would be loose at 3k, everyone I've talked to seemed to have very tight lash at the 5-6k mile point. You certain it's not something else? They didn't switch to a hydraulic chain tensioner on the 636 did they?

Anyway if you're that nervous about it I'd think it's worth pulling the valve cover and checking the clearances. Shouldn't take too long if you've done it before. It was only when I had to pull the cams to adjust the clearances that I ran into some difficulty.

**Mungla** · 04-01-04, 10:39 AM

The 04 model came with the valve lash set a bit looser than the other models, from what I've heard. Kawasaki extended the first valve adjustment from like 5-6k to 15k miles. I will probably wait until the 7-8k mile mark, since it will only take a few hours to check.

Feeler gauges for valve adjustment?

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