Feeler gauges for valve adjustment?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
Sounds like you are doing it right and those numbers sound "normal" to me. You "need" to adjust all of your exhaust valves and 3 of your intake valves. That said, might as well adjust all of the intakes valves to the max specs while ya got the cams out.

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the confirmation, I was a bit surprised to see some of the valves so far out of spec at 8k but who knows if the clearances have ever been checked? I just hope they're not so far out that the valves might have bent

Gordon I'm gonna check out my local shops and see if any do shim swapping. If I find one I'll let you know, though it's probably a bit of a hike for you just for shims...

[stoinkythepig]

No chance of them being bent from wear. Slight possibility I suppose form an improper lash setting but I seriously doubt that too. As long as you still have some clearance, they are seating.

Don't forget that if you follow the factory manual and it says the minimum spec for lash is .13mm, you would not adjust a valve that measured .13mm. I would, but the manual says that valve is "in spec".

The most valve movement is going to happen in the first couple of thousand miles. It will rapidly dwindle after that. Check them again at 15,000 and I would put money on them not moving more than .02-.03 mm.

Temperature is something else you need to consider too. The head is aluminum and the valves steel or titanium. These metals all have different coefficients of expansion, the aluminum being the least stable. That means that the colder the engine is, the tighter the tolerance will be. The valve stems are around 3" long so there is 3"+ of aluminum, between the valve seat and the valve tip, contracting in such a way as to bring the cam closer to the valve tip. Don't know where you were working on your bike, but if it was unheated, the tolernaces would have to be tighter than they would be in July. How much tighter is tough to say cause I'm too lazy to calculate.

Whe I get home I'm going to calculate what shims I will need for my next adjustment and see if anyone has the shims I need or needs the shims I have. Seems there are quite a few Kwackers on this list. I gotta take my bike apart anyway to replace all the plastic, might as well do the valves then too if I can be sure to get the shims I need and help folks out too. That said, you folks with 8-15K might need the shims I have but I bet you won't have any I need.... Who has 30,000+ miles on a shim under bucket Kawasaki? Anyone? Bueller?

[Honclfibr]

Pulled the cams and measured the shims, this is what I need:

3x 3.10mm
3x 3.15mm
6x 3.20mm
1x 3.25mm
3x 3.30mm

The shims I've got are all in the 2.9 - 3.05mm range, with most being 2.95 and 3.00mm. Dunno what you 9R guys are running for valve clearances, but let me know if any of ours match up. Otherwise, I'm gonna try and swap them sometim this week.

[scootertrash]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Pulled the cams and measured the shims, this is what I need:

3x 3.10mm
3x 3.15mm
6x 3.20mm
1x 3.25mm
3x 3.30mm

The shims I've got are all in the 2.9 - 3.05mm range, with most being 2.95 and 3.00mm. Dunno what you 9R guys are running for valve clearances, but let me know if any of ours match up. Otherwise, I'm gonna try and swap them sometim this week.

You may want to double check your math. If your current shims are mostly 2.95 and 3.00, the shims you need will all be under 2.95. You need to subtract (go to a thinner shim) to get more clearance if the current ones are too tight. (unless I misunderstood your post...which could be the case !)

It sounds like you may have some shims I can use. I need:
10 x 2.95mm
2 x 2.90mm
I assume your shims are 7.5mm in diameter ??

If you end up with extra 2.90s or 2.95s let me know. I might as well buy them from you if you don't need them. If I can get most of what I need from you, the shops may be more willing to swap if I only need a couple.

BTW...I have 3.00mm and 3.05mm if anyone needs them.

[Honclfibr]

You're absolutely right Gordon, I had a brain fart and added in the spreadsheet where I should have subtracted. I'll have to correct that tomorrow when I'm at the office...

You're more than welcome to swap with me if you can use the shims I have, if I can find a shop that'll do the swap I doubt they'll care what size shims I switch with them. I'll measure tomorrow but I think all kawasaki's are the same diameter. The only thing is we'll have to do it pretty quickly as I'm going to try and find a shop this week that'll swap with me. Are you close to Jay? If you can get them to him maybe he'd be willing to tote them to his shop, I'm right next to manchester...

[Stoneman]

Lemme know...

[stoinkythepig]

I looked my data over and will need the same sizes you folks require when I'm due for an adjustment. 14 out of 16 were still at the max allowable clearance after 10,500 miles of riding since the first adjust, so I think it'll be quite some time before I have to change any shims.

You folks are in the same situation I was in in late 2002. Fortunately, if you set them well now, you may never need to adjust them again (assuming that like most people, you ride <7500 miles a year, and get rid of the bike before 40,000 miles piles on).

[scootertrash]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
You're more than welcome to swap with me if you can use the shims I have, if I can find a shop that'll do the swap I doubt they'll care what size shims I switch with them. I'll measure tomorrow but I think all kawasaki's are the same diameter. The only thing is we'll have to do it pretty quickly as I'm going to try and find a shop this week that'll swap with me. Are you close to Jay? If you can get them to him maybe he'd be willing to tote them to his shop, I'm right next to manchester...

If you have any 2.90 or 2.95 I'll take them. I need 2 of the 2.90 and 10 of the 2.95.
Jay offered to do the delivery...just let me know and I'll get them to Jay's house.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by scootertrash
If you have any 2.90 or 2.95 I'll take them. I need 2 of the 2.90 and 10 of the 2.95.
Jay offered to do the delivery...just let me know and I'll get them to Jay's house.

I feel like an ass now, once you corrected my math and I redid the numbers almost all of my exhaust shims can be swapped into the intake valves. Which leaves me with nothing but 3mm+ shims. I'm real sorry about that, I feel plain stupid

I'm still going to need shims for all the exhaust valves and one of the intakes. If I can find a shop around here that'll do them, I can swap your shims for you too. Otherwise, I'd be up for a group shim order. If we can find one of those kits, I need 4x2.75, 2x2.70, 2x2.80, and 1x2.90 which means our numbers would seem to line up well for scavenging from a shim kit.

Edit: So far no luck, Rick's Motorcycles claims they don't even have shims (makes you wonder how they do valve adjustments...) and Nault's svc dept is closed on mondays. Gonna try them back tomorrow but I don't anticipate much luck with Naults...

[stoinkythepig]

Might have better luck just bringing the shims in to a shop and asking to speak to a mechanic.

[stoinkythepig]

So far no luck, Rick's Motorcycles claims they don't even have shims (makes you wonder how they do valve adjustments...)

When I swapped shims at Leighton's, the shim kit was covered with dust and it took the mechanic quite awhile to find it. Hmmm, wonder how much use it really gets...

[Honclfibr]

Heh, yeah after seeing how much of a job this is to do, and how easy it would be to cut corners, I wouldn't trust many dealerships to do it.

BTW to Nault's Windham, was told to stop on by tomorrow and they'd swap shims with me if they have the ones I need. Woohoo!

[scootertrash]

I had no luck finding a place to swap shims. I think if I only had a couple to swap, most places would have been a little more willing. When they saw I had 12 to swap, they just pointed to the parts counter. (and they are $10 each at most shops)
The best deal I found to buy shims was from www.cyclepages.com They are $4.21 each but you need to buy them in packages of 5. It worked out OK for me since I need mostly all the same size.

[Honclfibr]

Thanks gordon, I'll keep that site bookmarked. One thing I noticed with nault's was that they didn't have any shims larger than 2.95mm, which was a bit strange. You get the shims installed in the bike yet?

Oh and for all the negative posts we've had about dealers lately, here's a a counterpoint: Nault's Windham Motorcycles rocks! Came in with my bag 'o shims and talked to the guy at the service desk, mentioned I was told I might be able to swap shims. He asks me what size they are, goes into the back for a second, and comes out with a box full of kawi shims, all labelled and sorted, most never used. Says to me "here you go, just leave the box on the counter when you're done" and is gone. I brought my micrometer and checked the shims, but they were all correctly placed in their compartments! Swapped all I needed and was out of there in 5 minutes! Thank's Naults!

Picked up an oil filter on the way out, cost me twice what I would have paid online but I figure they just saved me 50 bucks in shims, I can buy a few slightly overpriced filters

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Thanks gordon, I'll keep that site bookmarked. One thing I noticed with nault's was that they didn't have any shims larger than 2.95mm, which was a bit strange. You get the shims installed in the bike yet?

Oh and for all the negative posts we've had about dealers lately, here's a a counterpoint: Nault's Windham Motorcycles rocks! Came in with my bag 'o shims and talked to the guy at the service desk, mentioned I was told I might be able to swap shims. He asks me what size they are, goes into the back for a second, and comes out with a box full of kawi shims, all labelled and sorted, most never used. Says to me "here you go, just leave the box on the counter when you're done" and is gone. I brought my micrometer and checked the shims, but they were all correctly placed in their compartments! Swapped all I needed and was out of there in 5 minutes! Thank's Naults!

Picked up an oil filter on the way out, cost me twice what I would have paid online but I figure they just saved me 50 bucks in shims, I can buy a few slightly overpriced filters

Perhaps they were so willing because you had shims they were out of. I'll give them a shot next time I need shims because they are almost on my way from work now.

[StumpyNB]

You know if you are carful, you can get a good grinding stone, and slowly grind off what you need to from the shims themselves. No need to buy new ones. I did 12 shims this way 2 weeks ago. No problem.

Just turn the shim often, and do it in a figure 8 pattern, so you grind it off evenly.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by StumpyNB
You know if you are carful, you can get a good grinding stone, and slowly grind off what you need to from the shims themselves. No need to buy new ones. I did 12 shims this way 2 weeks ago. No problem.

Just turn the shim often, and do it in a figure 8 pattern, so you grind it off evenly.

I was told that the shims were hardened outside but soft inside, and that grinding was not the way to go.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
Perhaps they were so willing because you had shims they were out of. I'll give them a shot next time I need shims because they are almost on my way from work now.

Actually they never even asked about or mentioned the shims I had to swap. Had I been so inclined I could have walked out with my old shims as well as their's. Of course, that would just ruin it for the next guy, and I didn't need my own shims besides.

[StumpyNB]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I was told that the shims were hardened outside but soft inside, and that grinding was not the way to go.

Well I suppose I shouldn't speak for all makes and models of bike, but the valve shims on my VFR 800FI were hardened all the way through. Think about it, why would you use a 'soft' material in that application? And it would either be hardened, or not hardened, but not 'hard outside, soft inside'. These aren't twinkies we're talking about.

[twrayinma]

Originally posted by StumpyNB
These aren't twinkies we're talking about.

mmm... shims with cream filling...

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by StumpyNB
Well I suppose I shouldn't speak for all makes and models of bike, but the valve shims on my VFR 800FI were hardened all the way through. Think about it, why would you use a 'soft' material in that application? And it would either be hardened, or not hardened, but not 'hard outside, soft inside'. These aren't twinkies we're talking about.

I think the process for surface hardening them is called "parkerization" but I know nothing about it. I believe cams are parkerized on the wear surfaces, and "soft" otherwise.

[Honclfibr]

Yay! It runs!

[twrayinma]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Yay! It runs!

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Yay! It runs!

You'll probably get used to the loud clanking noises...

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
You'll probably get used to the loud clanking noises...

I figured those would go away once the valve heads wear into the cylinders a bit? That's a normal part of break-in, right?

And the bolts that fell down the cylinder while the carbs were out, I figure those'll come out eventually through the exhaust. Like that time I swallowed a penny.