Need to find a new car/SUV/wagon (NO MINIVANS!!!)

[BostonSVkid]

So the wife and I live in the city and own two cars. She commutes to work via train and we rarely ever need two cars (once or twice every 3-4 months) and if we did we could borrow a friends or zipcar if we really needed to. We have a 14 month old and a dog so small cars are not our friend as we go up to NH a lot on the weekends

We currently own a 2002 Chevy Trailblazer (16 mpg avg) that can fit EVERYTHING and anything I would ever need to put in it, tow with it etc. Its getting older and we would not fell comfortable having this be our only mode of transportation. I love driving this thing but its also not every economical either.

We also own a 2007 VW Jetta Wolfsberg Edition (25-28 mpg avg) which I drive most of the time. This car can fit most things when we need but with a car seat our knees hit the dashboard due to it being rear facing till the kid is 2.

Our biggest issue is that we are going to consider having kid #2 sooner than later and the Jetta is not an option because I wont be able to get behind the wheel of the car without the possibility of eating the air bag if it were to come out. We dont trust an 11 year old truck to get us from A to B consistently (we have had a few issues with it recently).

So here is what I am looking for. Something that gets 20MPG or better, may be able to do light duty towing (bike and trailer), can hold two kids in car seats with driver/passenger seats still in a normal position, room for the dog, roof rack preferable as we have a thule bag and doesnt cost over $30k new. I would seriously consider used as we live in the city and we are buying a house in southie so its going to get bumped, hit and backed into.

I have yet to even test drive to look but figured many of your here know what I am dealing with.

Considering
Toyota Venza
Ford Edge
Honda Pilot
Jetta Sportwagen (only if the back seat is bigger than what I have now, doubt it thought)
Passat Wagon
Maxda CX-7 or CX-9

Would look at but probably wouldnt buy
Jeep Cherokee

Wont Consider
Any Audi's (too expensive to fix and usually small)
Volvo's
Chevy's (The new SUV's are heinous)


Let me know what you all have to give for advice.

[ff36buell]

Ever thought about a Ford Flex? One of the local police officers has one and loves it. I don't know about mileage, but it has PLENTY of room and doesn't look quite like a mommy wagon. He also can tow with it, don't know exactly the limits for towing but I thought I saw a pair of Jet Skis behind it once.

Nick

[Garandman]

Parking on the street in Southie you will soon learn the magic number: 190 inches. That's the length of an average mid-sized sedan. Anything bigger and parking is a hassle. Anything smaller and you can fit in left-over spaces. That's one reason I'm driving a WRX 5 door, which is 7" shorter than the sedan. The Rav4 is a popular cute-ute but the rear tailgate opens sideways, an incredible pain-in-the-butt in close quarters.

Subaru Outback and Forester. The Forester and other cute-utes are popular in SoBo as it's a little easier to park on the street. Tons available used. The 2.5's can tow a light trailer, the 3.0 (previous gen) or 3.6 (new) are a lot stronger.

When you have vehicles like the Ford Edge in there, you've defined the immense class of mid-sized Crossovers. The Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse are nice looking, but that is a class of vehicle that literally every manufacturer hits. Others like that very popular in Southie are BMW X3's (yup, SoBo has changed that much), and Acura RDX's (on the small side).

Mazda is very careful not to call the Mazda5 a minivan because young couples won't buy anything called a minivan (don't worry, you'll grow out of it). It has flexible passenger seating for 6 and flip down seats for cargo, and the rear doors are sliders, not opening. Now available with a V6.

We had an Outback wagon up to two kids. #3 called for a minivan. A good sized roof box adds a lot of capacity for trips and vacations.

[Falko]

Tribeca?

[BostonSVkid]

Yeah we have lived in Southie for a while. I forgot to mention we have a parking space currently that we intend to keep and use during the winter when parking gets REALLY bad. I forgot to mention the Subaru's but we will be look at those as well.

Parking on the street in Southie you will soon learn the magic number: 190 inches. That's the length of an average mid-sized sedan. Anything bigger and parking is a hassle. Anything smaller and you can fit in left-over spaces. That's one reason I'm driving a WRX 5 door, which is 7" shorter than the sedan. The Rav4 is a popular cute-ute but the rear tailgate opens sideways, an incredible pain-in-the-butt in close quarters.

Subaru Outback and Forester. The Forester and other cute-utes are popular in SoBo as it's a little easier to park on the street. Tons available used. The 2.5's can tow a light trailer, the 3.0 (previous gen) or 3.6 (new) are a lot stronger.

When you have vehicles like the Ford Edge in there, you've defined the immense class of mid-sized Crossovers. The Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse are nice looking, but that is a class of vehicle that literally every manufacturer hits. Others like that very popular in Southie are BMW X3's (yup, SoBo has changed that much), and Acura RDX's (on the small side).

Mazda is very careful not to call the Mazda5 a minivan because young couples won't buy anything called a minivan (don't worry, you'll grow out of it). It has flexible passenger seating for 6 and flip down seats for cargo, and the rear doors are sliders, not opening. Now available with a V6.

We had an Outback wagon up to two kids. #3 called for a minivan. A good sized roof box adds a lot of capacity for trips and vacations.

[Bonk!]

I'll be in the same boat when my trusty Pathfinder dies. I looked at the usual suspects like the Pathfinder, Pilot, Explorer and similarly sized SUVs but they're larger than I need and don't get the mileage I am looking for. The Venza and the Honda Crosstour both had crummy interiors. The Lexus felt too car-like. I haven't found exactly what I want; the Volvos and BMWs are about the right size but I hold my cars a long time and they get expensive to repair as they age. I am headed to check out Acuras next.

[mojobreakfast]

RAV4 V6? Rated for 3500 pounds towing and I pull a heavy 5x10 landscape trailer with it, no problem. Mine is a 2011 Sport, well under $30k. The Sport models are built in the Lexus factory in Japan. It's shorter in length than my 2003 Accord. Easy to park, really roomy, has roof racks, unstoppable in the snow, 20 MPG+ all day in mixed driving. It will have better resale and reliability than most of the things you mentioned. Also happens to be a ridiculous sleeper that hauls ass. Some people claim sub-6 second 0-60; not sure about that, but it's faster than my old GTI and Prelude.

[Point37]

Subaru Outback and Forester. The Forester and other cute-utes are popular in SoBo as it's a little easier to park on the street. Tons available used. The 2.5's can tow a light trailer, the 3.0 (previous gen) or 3.6 (new) are a lot stronger.

^^^this...these have grown on me as well but they don't look like there is much cargo room...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3r...back_Sport.jpg

[Garandman]

RAV4 V6? Rated for 3500 pounds towing and I pull a heavy 5x10 landscape trailer with it, no problem. Mine is a 2011 Sport, well under $30k. The Sport models are built in the Lexus factory in Japan. It's shorter in length than my 2003 Accord. Easy to park, really roomy, has roof racks, unstoppable in the snow, 20 MPG+ all day in mixed driving. It will have better resale and reliability than most of the things you mentioned. Also happens to be a ridiculous sleeper that hauls ass. Some people claim sub-6 second 0-60; not sure about that, but it's faster than my old GTI and Prelude.

They're a PITA in the city because of the side-opening hatch.

[BostonSVkid]

yeah my jetta is bigger than that haha

^^^this...these have grown on me as well but they don't look like there is much cargo room...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3r...back_Sport.jpg

[Garandman]

yeah my jetta is bigger than that haha

^^^this...these have grown on me as well but they don't look like there is much cargo room...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3r...back_Sport.jpg

Outback Sport is a trim level of the Impreza. In other words, same size as the WRX 5 door. It competes with Mazda3 hatch, Golf, etc. No way it fits a backwards baby seat.



The "real" Outback, which used to be called the Legacy Outback, is substantially larger: for example, is 188.2" long versus 173.8, 71.2" 71.7" wide versus 68.7. The Forester splits the difference at 179.5".

Cars101.com has everything you want to know about any Subaru, new or used.

[mojobreakfast]

They're a PITA in the city because of the side-opening hatch.

Definitely a downside that I don't really think of, usually. I don't live in the city, so it hasn't been a problem, but I can see how it would be. Strange that Toyota made it this way.

[Point37]

yeah my jetta is bigger than that haha

yea so is my 05 mazda 6i...i have over 200k miles on it so i am looking at the outback sport (along with the legacy and tsx) for my next vehicle but not sure i could take the hit in cargo space...they did make a mazda 6 wagon for a couple years...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%2...6_Wagon_V6.jpg

my mom just picked up a new style outback and it has more cargo room than the forester...really nice vehicle but much bigger than the previous design...more like and suv than a wagon

[Woodsy]

I have both a Subaru Tribeca and a Subaru Forester (2008 and 2012 respectively) and they are both great in different ways.

Tribeca-

The good-
Lots of space (about the same size as a comparable GM SUV)
Good looking interior
Super comfortable
Fits child seats no problem
Absolute beast in the snow (like no shit unstoppable)
The 3.6 flat six is smooth as silk

The Bad-
gas mileage is about 18 MPG combined
NAV is a little outdated graphics wise (works great though)
No voice commands (although handsfree calling is available on 2011+ models)
looks a little bland on the outside

THE FORESTER

The Good-
Absolutely sweet turbo motor (Same one in the WRX, albeit a bit detuned)
Great NAV/Audio package
good amount of room for its size
Fits a rear facing baby seat no problem
Comfortable
Super easy to park/drive in city traffic
23 MPG combined
Fun to drive!
Beast in the snow
good looking car
great HID lights

The Bad-
Absolutely archaic 4speed auto is the only trans available with the turbo
Seats need more side bolstering
THE FUCKING CUP HOLDERS ARE SQUARE!!! WHO HAS SQUARE CUPS!!!
Turbo's are hard to find
a 3.6 outback is only about $3k more
People keep asking why i would put a hood scoop on a forester (I didn't)
Premium fuel only
Base model has a dog of an engine
needs more sound deadening
base models feel super cheap

Overall I would buy both of these again and I have also put my mom in an outback and my dad in a legacy (both 3.6R's). If I lived in the city I would say forester though. There are other things that are comparable but what sells it is the all wheel drive system. Even against other AWD systems the Subaru Symmetrical All Wheel Drive System absolutely wins out. All wheels all the time vs. "Oh shit we are sliding, engage the rear wheels, oh shit! Too late!!!!!".

[BostonSVkid]

The more and more I look....I hate to say it but the subaru outback wagons are growing on me. Would prefer the 3.6 motor though.

[nhbubba]

If I were doing it over again right now, I'd probably go find a last gen Outback wagon with the 2.5L and an MT.
The fact that Subaru supports tow rigs right from the showroom floor is a nice bonus. VW and Mazda dealers threaten to void your warranty for life if they even suspect.

[Tunertype]

Check out the Kia SUV's they get pretty good gas mileage(28mpg(sportage turbo), 26mpg(Sorento V6). The Sportage GDI(275hp turbo 2.0) is one of the fastest SUV's out there with slightly over 7 second 0-60 time. The towing is low(2000lb for the Sportage, 3500 for the Sorento), but it's enough to get by, and it's better than the other small SUV's from Toyota(Rav4) and Honda CRV(both are 1500lbs).

The bluetooth on Kia's is the best I've ever found. My brother in law has a fully loaded 2012 Subaru legacy 3.6 and the wife just picked up a 2012 Honda Pilot. The bluetooth and stereo in my Kia soul is far superior in features and ease of use. Both of their blue tooth systems require programming to work, the Kia just recognizes voice commands, both of the other blue tooth systems have trouble understanding what your saying, the Kia system understands you just about every time. The commands are faster and quicker as well. The Honda doesn't even have bluetooth MP3 playing over the stereo and the Subaru has to be setup in a very complicated system and doesn't always connect right, the Kia connects the instant you get inside the car.

If you want a giant clunky SUV that can tow 4500lbs and seat 8 comfortably the Pilot is pretty nice. The fuel economy is not going to be better than 20mpg in the city, it will probably get you 16-18mpg though. The Pilot also has standard tow hitch which is nicely hidden under a plastic pannel, and it is pretty much a mini van with an SUV body(same seating, same engine, same features as a Honda Odyssey).

[Woodsy]

The sportage, while fast and extremely well appointed (good looking too), is one of the worst riding cars I have ever driven. The wife and I looked at one and it was absolutely abysmal. On anything but glass smooth pavement it was jarring. If i had to drive one of those every day i would probably end up killing myself...

[Garandman]

The more and more I look....I hate to say it but the subaru outback wagons are growing on me. Would prefer the 3.6 motor though.

Another option is a 2005-2009 with the 3.0 H6. the H6's get a 5 speed automatic and the VTD drive system. The 06 also has an aluminum hood and tailgate. Stock shocks aren't very good, easily remedied.

Towing is no problem.....


Also in the 2005-2009 range is the Outback XT, which has a 2.5l turbo engine and was available with manual. Tow capacity is not as high and they require premium fuel. The Legacy GT wagon is really sought after, so there might be a premium, but they have remarkable performance.

[nhbubba]

So I've always wondered. Is the 2.5L turbo the 'Outback XT' or the 'Legacy GT Wagon' or what?
I swore I saw a gorgeous black 'Outback XT' with a turbo badge on it one day. I was pretty sure it wasn't someone being a tool bag with plastic adhesive.

I am not sure the turbo in the Legacy appeals to me, personally. I'd approach it more as a workhorse. IIRC the 2.5L N/A + MT combo will tow more than 2k lbs easy. That's more than enough for this weekend warrior.

[rg500]

We have a 2011 outback and love it

[Garandman]

So I've always wondered. Is the 2.5L turbo the 'Outback XT' or the 'Legacy GT Wagon' or what?
I swore I saw a gorgeous black 'Outback XT' with a turbo badge on it one day. I was pretty sure it wasn't someone being a tool bag with plastic adhesive.

The Outback XT is the Outback suspension in the Legacy wagon chassis, also with the VTD drive system and 5EAT or 5 speed manual (some years).

The Legacy GT wagon was the Legacy GT, only a wagon. It had an upgraded suspension that is much lower and much better than an OBW, and did not have the elevated roof of the Outback. They look and handle much better than an OBW, and the manuals are sought-after by enthusiasts.


Probably the best wagon Subaru made - the Spec B Legacy 3.0R - was never sold in the US. Here's a road test by Vicki Butler Henderson.




Yes, I know her name.....Would hit.

[BostonSVkid]

what size motor?

We have a 2011 outback and love it

[nhbubba]

Cool.
I swear I once saw an XT badged wagon with an MT and the Outback extra plastic cladding.
Maybe I'm just remembering it wrong though.

[zxme]

What about a Murano?