Bumpy tires again

[aldend123]

i haven't ridden an 80/100 in a long, long time so i can't compare to the 90/90 but steering got WAY easier to dial when i dropped back down from the 90/100. got tired of fighting front end feel with rear adjustments + the climbing out of ruts with the 90/100 Fatty. so nice for straight-line rock gardens though!

yeah, i assume you mean the Shinko MX216 90/90, same experience here. felt very unstable on our usual stuff, didn't like it at all, almost pulled it off after a few rides ... i was still dialing in the new bike so wasn't sure how much was hating the stock Sachs again or not but for the hell of it ran it at lower pressure than i normally would, 12-13psi down to 10psi ... completely changed the feel up front.

try running it at 10, or maybe even 9, and see if it changes the feel. even at 10psi i haven't felt a rim hit yet. i think it's a very stiff sidewall on those ... no chunking yet.

9? I'd have a flat before my ass hit the seat But I normally run 14-15, occasionally 12-13. Heavier bike and not the lightest operator. I tried 12 for like ~90miles on Sunday. It improved a little, but it still felt so wrong. I rode a backyard moto track as part of an Enduro and hated every turn. It was like a bike with too much rake, or a bad front wheel bearing. I didn't think the extra volume/surface area really smoothed anything out in a straight line either.

Maybe I needed to tweak the fork height? But I pulled it off last night and put a new M59 on. I tried to fix something that wasn't broken.

[typeone]

9? I'd have a flat before my ass hit the seat But I normally run 14-15, occasionally 12-13. Heavier bike and not the lightest operator. I tried 12 for like ~90miles on Sunday. It improved a little, but it still felt so wrong. I rode a backyard moto track as part of an Enduro and hated every turn. It was like a bike with too much rake, or a bad front wheel bearing. I didn't think the extra volume/surface area really smoothed anything out in a straight line either.

Maybe I needed to tweak the fork height? But I pulled it off last night and put a new M59 on. I tried to fix something that wasn't broken.

yeah, i tried just under 10 over the weekend ... two rim smacks even at low speed. 10 works for me with this tire, but yeah, not sure i will buy again. prob not.

sucks you couldn't dial but it's only a tire. did you ride the M59 and all is well again? i did keep my forks raised a bit in the triples but 1 line less than what i used to run the Fatty at. also moved my bar mount forward and stiffened the rear. bike has been feeling great!

speaking of front tires though, i had a shitload of water in the rim two rides ago. i thought my fork was leaking with the big puddle under front wheel. gotta redo my rim tape i guess (?) i've never experienced that before.

EDIT: 14-15 psi up front would feel like a rock to me! hahaa. do you run HD tubes as well? i assume yes ... on the raked out feel, did you try riding the tank more? if that helped, could just be a sag tweak.

[aldend123]

did you ride the M59 and all is well again?

No test ride yet, but I'm sure it'll be fine. Might be heading to MX23 Friday. Want to take a day off?

EDIT: 14-15 psi up front would feel like a rock to me! hahaa. do you run HD tubes as well? i assume yes ... on the raked out feel, did you try riding the tank more? if that helped, could just be a sag tweak.

It isn't soft, that's for sure. But I don't find a crazy different between 14 and 12. Below that, it does soften up but I have a gift of getting flats. IRC UHD's. They're beefy. It's not uncommon for me to bottom my front end, or end up on a line at pace with a pointy rock.

If anything, I believe my rear preload is on the stiff side. I need to measure again soon, since I've cranked it tighter and slid the forks up since the last time I measured, but I really doubt it's too soft. I have some rear initial harshness as a result of the extra preload that I think I can reduce by pushing the forks up a little further and backing the collar off a bit in the rear.

[maxim_X]

I got my tubliss setup yesterday. Install wasn’t that bad, and the tire install after was just a little harder than normal. Getting the second beed into the slot is a pain. I had to use my beed breaker to hold it down while I spooned the last 6 inches on. I have a Shinko 216 fatty front, and mt16 rear that’s I’ve hat sitting around for a while.

[typeone]

I got my tubliss setup yesterday. Install wasn’t that bad, and the tire install after was just a little harder than normal. Getting the second beed into the slot is a pain. I had to use my beed breaker to hold it down while I spooned the last 6 inches on. I have a Shinko 216 fatty front, and mt16 rear that’s I’ve hat sitting around for a while.

you will come to like changes a lot more, i don't even use the metal guide plate anymore. it takes some getting used to but overall i find it much easier than HD tube changes ... depends on the firmness of the tire/sidewall though ... i never went Tubliss in the front. seems like nothing but headaches. tighter quarters and rim has to be very straight.

[Paul_E_D]

Ok, It's finally time for me to order some woods tires. I don't really want to try whacky sizes or run super low pressures. MT16 rear, and what front?

[Chippertheripper]

Either the golden fatty, m59 (industry standard...golden fatty slim) or irc ve33 or 35, whichever is the front, if you don’t mind something stiff that wears like iron.
Side knobs will chunk like whoa on either of the first 2.

[aldend123]

Either the golden fatty, m59 (industry standard...golden fatty slim)

Goldentyre offers a 'slim' version of their own fatty too. Seems like no one buys it or talks about it since anyone interested in the GT216AA is usually interested in running the fatty. I ran the 80/100 216AA a little while back. I remember some subtle differences compared to M59, but nothing significant.

Seems like the ibex and 505/525 cheaters have won over some of the MT16 fans, but walk around an event and you'll still see a lot of bikes with an M59 up front. I've got one on right now.

[Chippertheripper]

I tried a couple of the cheaters. They didn’t really rock my world.
The mt16 isn’t going to really rock anyone’s world either. It’s just pretty damn good at everything.

[Paul_E_D]

Well, I honestly can't figure out from this thread what to try. too many voices I guess. My local shop has the MT16/M59 combo in stock, so that might be where I land.

[typeone]

M59/MT16 is a New England default ... i'd start there if you don't want to try any gummy stuff, especially if your local shop has them ready to go.

[tls25rs]

Either the golden fatty, m59 (industry standard...golden fatty slim) or irc ve33 or 35, whichever is the front, if you don’t mind something stiff that wears like iron.
Side knobs will chunk like whoa on either of the first 2.

M59/MT16 is a New England default ... i'd start there if you don't want to try any gummy stuff, especially if your local shop has them ready to go.

I've ridden with all of the above listed front tires as well as the IRC rear. I don't see what all the hype is over the Golden Tyre Fatty. It gripped as well as either of the M59 and the IRC front but I don't believe it lasted as long as either, plus being the fatty it didn't seem to want to turn as well at lower pressures and also liked to climb the side walls of any ruts I wound up in. That being said the M59 and the IRC front both seem to work really well in the NE woods.

When I had a 19" rear tire I ran the IRC rear because I couldn't get the MT16 in a 19" anymore. When I got my 18" wheel I went back to the MT16. IRC seemed to wear better than the MT16 but both have plenty of grip on the roots an rocks NE throws at you.

One oddity of the MT16 is that it tends to shed rubber on the inside of the tire and wear out that way where I never saw that with the IRCs. Go to take off an MT16 and want to reuse the UHD tube and it will take you a while with a scotchbrite pad to clean all the rubber deposits off the tube. Shagged MT16 you can see the cord material when looking at the inside of the tire where the tube has worn the rubber off.

[Paul_E_D]

MT16/M59 are in my shop.

[aldend123]

I tried a couple of the cheaters. They didn’t really rock my world.
The mt16 isn’t going to really rock anyone’s world either. It’s just pretty damn good at everything.

The cheaters were better at forward grip than an MT16, especially on something like wet shiny roots up hill. But rear braking wasn't as good, nor was mud. And for me, they were shot in a fraction of the time I can get out of an MT16. One theory is my preference (requirement?) for higher pressures. I hate doing tires, so I'm not in a hurry to try it again.

Well, I honestly can't figure out from this thread what to try. too many voices I guess. My local shop has the MT16/M59 combo in stock, so that might be where I land.

You shouldn't have any regrets. For a NE woods rider, when in doubt, that's the go-to combo.

I don't see what all the hype is over the Golden Tyre Fatty. It gripped as well as either of the M59 and the IRC front but I don't believe it lasted as long as either, plus being the fatty it didn't seem to want to turn as well at lower pressures and also liked to climb the side walls of any ruts I wound up in. That being said the M59 and the IRC front both seem to work really well in the NE woods.

While I only ran the regular profile, I didn't get the hype either. And honestly, seems like we might be on the tail end of that fad. The regular-width was a great tire, but for me it seemed to last about the same as a M59, provided similar feel and traction, while being more expensive.

One oddity of the MT16 is that it tends to shed rubber on the inside of the tire and wear out that way where I never saw that with the IRCs. Go to take off an MT16 and want to reuse the UHD tube and it will take you a while with a scotchbrite pad to clean all the rubber deposits off the tube. Shagged MT16 you can see the cord material when looking at the inside of the tire where the tube has worn the rubber off.

Ya, I've seen that. I scrub the pilling off with my finger. Usually seems to affect the tube more than the inner tire for me, but it does affect both. I believe some people put corn starch or baby powder in to try and mitigate it. I've yet to have it get bad enough that it caused any problems before it was time to take the tire off. I don't run mine bald, but pretty sure I keep my tires on a little past what most people consider done.

[typeone]

i think what i learned is the Fatty isn't hype but a tire suited to specific conditions and riding style. it was a huge improvement in straight-line rocks and roots, like i had suspension work done ... everywhere else, not so much.

just like if i went back to riding purely MX, i would abandon the combo i prefer in the woods.

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+1 for baby powder, i've always done that for tubes. helps you slip it in but it will ball up shortly after.

[gregp]

I like the Goldentyre fatty front. It required some geometry adjustments but once I found a sweet spot for it, it worked great. It was relatively pricey though. I might try the Shinko 90/100 copy next.


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[maxim_X]

I love the fatty front. For me, it gives me confidence and grip in gnarly, rocky sections, and float in the sand. It works in everything. That said, a more delicate ride who uses finesse more than force to ride might notice the extra weight and numb steering.

For the back I’m on an m16 now, running it tubliss. I have a 505, and Ibex to try. The tusk recon is getting good reviews too.

[gregp]

I have been using a Pirelli MT-32 trials copy on the rear for several years now. I do a lot of dual sport type pavement, so I like the smooth ride. It also lasts a long time, and my 4 stroke hooks up fine with it in most places.


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[tls25rs]

I love the fatty front. For me, it gives me confidence and grip in gnarly, rocky sections, and float in the sand.

I can see if where you are riding a lot has sand where the fatty would help with float. Where I ride there is very little sand so not so much of a positive. A little more forgiveness on pinch flats when running tubes is another slight advantage of the fatty.

[Paul_E_D]

Ok, did my first ride on the MT16/M59 combo. I can't really say that it felt any better than what I was running before (whatever the rear bridgestone MX tire is, 203?) But I think conditions were a little tougher than normal with steep slopes still weeping winter runoff. I struggled on a climb that is normally a non issue for me. but it was a special combo of clay like mud and rock. We'll see as the surface firms up a little.

[Paul_E_D]

It sure was nice to get out.


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[Sideshow]

The best way to practice social distancing.

I have a fresh set on the YZX
Bridgestone X30f / IRC VE-33S

No time on them yet but heard great things

[Paul_E_D]

Hope others are getting out. Great antidote for stress.


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[MHenry600]

Still way too wet up here to ride the little bit of stuff out behind my place. The 8 inches of snow coming tomorrow night won't help either.

[Kurlon]

Trails aren't open yet around me, haven't ordered the parts to fix up the 250XC, don't want to try and register it yet either 'cause no idea what my town hall is like right now.