Is this anyone here

[Paul_E_D]

yes, they make as much sound (noise),

they do not compact the soil, cause as much erosion, or increase sedimentation in waterways or impact the environment during the growing season, snowmobiles have nowhere near the same impact on the environment as wheeled vehicles

I knew that was coming. But they are largely two strokes and superbly inefficient, so they have their impact. They run them on grass, in water, trip avalanches, rock slides. Come on. My point is if you look deeply enough all of our activity has far reaching impact. Splitting hairs from one activity to the next by regulatory bodies is just a poor excuse for economic discrimination. Rich people's preferences will always be cleaner.

[typeone]

thank you for pointing out the fucking Richie Rich stunt pilots and blanket sled privilege. i bitch about both all year long.

-signed, another life-long shit-head dirt biker

[TheIglu]

I'd rather have dirt bikes riding around my neighborhood than the 15 fucking out of state vehicles in the first mile alone of my commute hunting like a bunch of pansy city assholes that they are.

OH GOOD YOU MANAGED TO SHOOT A DEER THAT MUSTA TOOK SOME BRAINS AND PHYSICAL ABILITY, THANKS FOR TRESPASSING YOU FUCKING IDIOTS, GO COMPLAIN ABOUT DIRTBIKES TO YOUR NEIGHBOR WHOSE HOUSE IS 3 FEET FROM YOURS BEFORE HITTING CABELAS IN YOUR F150

OH AND IF YOUR SUPER FUCKING SECRET HUNTING SPOT GETS POSTED, RIP THE SIGN DOWN AND STUFF IT IN THE ONLY MAILBOX ON THE ROAD, THEN KNOCK OVER THE MAIL BOX. BIG MAN!

Fucking hunters. I hate this time of year.

[RandyO]

I knew that was coming. But they are largely two strokes

um, not any more, no way did I imply that snowmobiles have no impact, but they most certainly have less environmental impact than wheeled vehicles

rich persons toy..... have you ever shopped for a side by side ?

yer really reaching when you bring up things like avalanches (skiers cause more) and rock slides (how many times has that happened, 2? I would bet a whole lot more have been caused by wheeled vehicles )

I'm trying to get trails built, it doesn't help much when wheeled OHRVers try arguing that they are no more impacting than snowmobiles, we have to build longer trails to avoid wetlands that snowmobilers can cross cause they are frozen in their short season, more bridges have to be built, more effort all around

[Paul_E_D]

I do understand that they have a big impact, but I am pretty dismayed at the utter lack of riding possibilities. Horse and buggy roads can still be seen from space. All of our activity has impact. We can't stop that. Give us more places to ride and spread the impact out. Ask clubs to do trail work. Whatever. But don't keep pointing fingers. That is my beef.

Well, if Trump has his way, the EPA won't have ANY teeth in a few years time and we can go scar up the land.

[RandyO]

Well, if Trump has his way, the EPA won't have ANY teeth in a few years time and we can go scar up the land.

EPA is not an issue

its mostly state regulations and at the federal level, the Army Corps of Engineers, not associated with the EPA

[R7]

I do understand that they have a big impact, but I am pretty dismayed at the utter lack of riding possibilities. Horse and buggy roads can still be seen from space. All of our activity has impact. We can't stop that. Give us more places to ride and spread the impact out. Ask clubs to do trail work. Whatever. But don't keep pointing fingers. That is my beef.

Well, if Trump has his way, the EPA won't have ANY teeth in a few years time and we can go scar up the land.

The problem is, everyone wants/expects someone/something to hand them a place to ride. If more people got involved with clubs, land owners, and the local government..there would be more places to ride. Seems the only one in this thread that's putting effort into anything public, is Randy. The rest will sit and think of excuses to support their personal thoughts.

I tried with a group here in RI a few years ago to organize a club to petition orv land use, sadly the problems we ran into were conflicts within the user groups...mostly with the dirt bike guys complaining they can't ride/share double track trails

[Paul_E_D]

Gimme trails, bitch! Haha, seriously, I'm in support of Randy working to get trails opened. I'm just not sure it's possible given the argumentative NIMBY society that we have become. Arguing over who has more impact seems like a dead end for opening more terrain. I'm not even sure what you are referring to with the ACOE. Building trails from scratch? That's not what I'm suggesting. I've never seen a ACOE officer giving tickets. Pretty sure the EPA or DEM is determining who rides (or doesn't ride) where.

The two tracks that do exist should absolutely be open to horses, bikes, and even those damn side by sides. If there were the option to ride and do trail work, I would be on it. That is what I do already at my local spot. But there isn't. As long as all we can do is point fingers and bicker, I'm not gonna get too upset with anyone who decides, fuck it, I'm going to ride.
In my area the mt bike guys have built over 100 miles of unauthorized single track. A lot of it on state forest. What does the DEM do. Nothing. Or legitimizes the trails.

[Stoneman]

It doesn't matter which off-road activity has the most detrimental impact to land. What matters is what is PERCEIVED to have the larger impact in the eyes of THE PROPERTY OWNER. Doesn't matter what Randy or Paul toss around or what environmental studies show. However misguided the conceptions of certain landowners may be, again it comes down to THEIR decision. Not the EPA, not the F&G, not DRED nor the BOT...

[Falko]

.....
In my area the mt bike guys have built over 100 miles of unauthorized single track. A lot of it on state forest. What does the DEM do. Nothing. Or legitimizes the trails.

I wouldn't go that far. There has been a lot of crack down on Mt bikers and trails as of late. There are whole sections of state forests where mt biking is outlawed and actively enforced. There is a big push to get that area re-opened, but as you said there are too many on the other side that just want it their way. And it isn't only biking, ORV'ing, etc, there has been a pretty big push on many lakes to limit boat speeds down to no wake, ban wake enhancing devices, ban towing, etc. Everyone wants to ban something and if most get their way, we can all sit around a non-lit campfire, quietly humming Coombaya, drinking non-alcoholic, well, water, eating free-range twigs and berries. Sounds like a great fucking time.

[nhbubba]

I agree with a lot of points Paul is making here. And you all know how that makes me crazy!

ACOE (had to google it) controls who rides at Clough. I know this for fact. Clubs I've volunteered with there (MVTR) have stated on numerous occasions that the Corps have threatened to "close" the area to riding unless certain tasks were accomplished. Erosion controls. Trail signage. Etc.

And NH F&G enforces whatever the Corps says, as far as I know. I've seen active enforcement when the area is closed (by the Corps) for mud-season.


IMO the biggest obstructions to OHV use is the fact that most of this area is private land and lack of participation from OHV'ers in local gov't. Not lack of participation in OHV clubs. I don't see how increased participation in OHV clubs would have much effect. Meanwhile the impact of participation in local gov't seems obvious.

But none of that is going to have very substantial impact on private land. Which is most of what we started talking about here.

[RandyO]

G I've never seen a ACOE officer giving tickets. Pretty sure the EPA or DEM is determining who rides (or doesn't ride) where.

that is because you don't have a clue about the permitting process, CoE does not go after individual riders, they go after the LAND OWNER, with liens and heavy fines for wetland violations, mandated restoration etc. EPA has absolutely nothing to do with creating or establishing trails

this is not my first trail permitting project, just the first of it's magnitude and regional impact

[Paul_E_D]

Coombaya my lord, Coombaya. Sing it with me.

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[Paul_E_D]

that is because you don't have a clue about the permitting process, CoE does not go after individual riders, they go after the LAND OWNER, with liens and heavy fines for wetland violations, mandated restoration etc. EPA has absolutely nothing to do with creating or establishing trails

this is not my first trail permitting project, just the first of it's magnitude and regional impact

Correct I have no clue. I appreciate the knowledge you bring to the table. I was admittedly just stirring the pot. But the topic is a frustrating one to the rider.

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[gumby]

The problem is, everyone wants/expects someone/something to hand them a place to ride. If more people got involved with clubs, land owners, and the local government..there would be more places to ride.

Great post! I can only speak from a snowmobiling angle, but most folks have no idea how much time and effort it takes to keep trails open- for all users.
In short, it's all about being involved in a club and having good relations with landowners.

[typeone]

speaking of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers...

huge props to the ACoE at Hodges Village Dam for a truly successful multi-use area. year-round access to hiking, canoeing, nature classes, mountain biking, cross-country skiing, model airplane flying, disc golf, hunting, horseback riding AND dirt biking (no quads). in the 10 years i've been riding there, all groups get along and give eachother respect, as far as i can tell. shit, even horse people have said in person and posted online that HVD dirt bikers are some of the most respectful they've encountered. amazing. you'll always have a few douchebags but overall it's pretty fantastic that all of this activity goes on at one location. it's all because of the great work the ACoE is doing there.

super thankful to have this as my local riding spot but i'm def guilty of not volunteering for trail work days. need to change that and give back.

[ZX-12R]

...AND dirt biking (no quads).

That's backwards by NH standards. Other than some single track being limited to dirt bikes only within a larger multi-use area, most of the restrictions are against dirt bikes up here.

[Imbeek]

There is no eye rolling icon sufficient to express my reaction to anyone who has a problem with MOUNTAIN BIKE trails...

[cdovego]

Dayyyyummmm, I'm starting to wonder how many people here never ever rode a dirtbike or quad where it wasn't all blessed by every tree hugger in America, sprinkled with special water by Henry David Thoreau, and with signs erected every few feet specifically allowing the time, season, tires, spark arrestor, and number of decibels that are ok. (I will leave out the whole blood money/ORV reg/sales tax/big brother angle for this post, but it's all part of the same drag, man!)

This past Sunday, I was woken up by 4 two stroke dirtbikes being started next door at 8am for a ride up on the mountain behind my house, along with some other mountains where riding is not encouraged (to put it lightly). I haven't gone on those rides in years, and don't intend to...but I wasn't annoyed; I thought it was fucking awesome, just like I do every Sunday.

Amen.

[gixxer72]

I'd rather have dirt bikes riding around my neighborhood than the 15 fucking out of state vehicles in the first mile alone of my commute hunting like a bunch of pansy city assholes that they are.

Who in the fuck would travel to MA to hunt from out of state??

[Stoneman]

The problem is, everyone wants/expects someone/something to hand them a place to ride. If more people got involved with clubs, land owners, and the local government..there would be more places to ride. Seems the only one in this thread that's putting effort into anything public, is Randy. The rest will sit and think of excuses to support their personal thoughts.

I tried with a group here in RI a few years ago to organize a club to petition orv land use, sadly the problems we ran into were conflicts within the user groups...mostly with the dirt bike guys complaining they can't ride/share double track trails

Great post! I can only speak from a snowmobiling angle, but most folks have no idea how much time and effort it takes to keep trails open- for all users.
In short, it's all about being involved in a club and having good relations with landowners.

Yup...and yup!

That's backwards by NH standards. Other than some single track being limited to dirt bikes only within a larger multi-use area, most of the restrictions are against dirt bikes up here.

It seems fucked up, for sure. But the perception (there's that word again!) is that the skinny, higher PSI single track dirtbikes cause more damage than the wider, low PSI ATV/SxS tires. I was SHOCKED to see how many north country trail systems don't allow dirtbikes on their systems...

[TheIglu]

Who in the fuck would travel to MA to hunt from out of state??

Apparently a whole shit ton of people from NH and VT.

[Garandman]

Who in the fuck would travel to MA to hunt from out of state??

It's a thing. A friend of mine hunts deer every year in MA, ME, NH, and VT, including bow seasons. He likes him some venison.

By contrast my buddy in CT just puts out a salt lick any time they get low on venison, and keeps his mouth shut.

[aldend123]

There is no eye rolling icon sufficient to express my reaction to anyone who has a problem with MOUNTAIN BIKE trails...

The perk of the NIMBY's making an issue of this one really shows just how unreasonable they are. Basically, it might help if this gets worse before it gets better to expose the fun police.

[Chippertheripper]

There is no eye rolling icon sufficient to express my reaction to anyone who has a problem with MOUNTAIN BIKE trails...

You mean recycled dirty bike trails.