Woods Bike Question for you Woodsy People.........

[tls25rs]

After reading Union's woods bike build post I'm kinda jonesing to get myself off of my '91 Honda CR125 that I've been using in the woods for the last couple of years and onto something a little nicer for the woods. Combine that with a decent tax return and things could get ugly for me really quickly.

Now the question that everyone loves to answer, what bike is reccommended as an awesome woods bike?

I purposely left that question vague, now I'll spell out some details that may help guide the answer a bit.



About me:

6' 4"

325 lbs (currently, hoping to lose a few riding the new bike)

Some woods riding experience, not the fastest but can keep a decent pace (at least I think so)




Other possible contributing factors:

I know that whatever bike I buy the suspension will have to be redone for my size.

I don't need the biggest baddest engine. The 125 2 stroke has been plenty of fun in the woods.

I have local access to a Yamaha/Suzuki dealer, this dealer also has access to Honda/Kawasaki/KTM/BMW. Yamaha/Suzuki parts a little quicker to get than the other parts when needed.

Street registerable in MA would be nice. Only to make it possible to do turkey runs/hare scrambles that require road regs.

2 stroke or 4 stroke not a real factor.

Might have some possible track duty thrown in now and then. Meaning, the occasional trip to MX207, the track in Epping or any track in NE if a group is going. I wont be trying to become a track rider on this bike just going to hang with friends and want a bike capable of getting around the track without me killing myself or others.



Obilgatory dumb questions:

Knowing that I am going to have to have the suspension redone anyhow, would I be better off starting out with a woods bike or a motorcross bike? The woods bikes I have seen tend to cost roughly $1000 more for similar bikes. That $1000 could be spent to make the motorcross bike's suspension, rear wheel etc. better for the woods.

Is the geometry of a woods bike different such that it is significantly better in the woods? Would this be addressed during redoing of the suspension?

How about the transmission/gearing/flywheel etc. of the woods bike?



Wow, that wound up longer than I thought it would. Any input you guys have is appreciated.

Thanks

Joel

[union]

Start with the MX bike. The engines in the woods bikes like the 250F are a little tuned down from the R. Getting a title will be a bit more of a bitch but its worth it. Id say stay with the 125 or 250. The 450s are a bit too much for the woods.

[highsider]

I'd spend the extra money to get something designed as a woods bike. I'd also definitely recommend getting something you can get a street plate for, it opens up so many more possibilities for riding.

I started on a KDX220, which was a two stroke but still set up well for lower RPM woods riding. Very reliable, easy to maintain, and with more than enough power for the woods. Heard lots of good things about KTM's 200 and 300 bikes as well.

Lots of good 4 stroke options these days as well, though they tend to be extra money.

I'm also a big guy, and I have a tough time re-starting the bike 94 friggin times when the riding gets tough and you crash alot. 2-strokes are easy to restart, but four strokes can be a pain. If you get a 4-stroke, I'd definitely recommend something with electric start.

I've never owned a motocross bike, but have ridden with plenty of folks who have. Gearing and suspension always tend to be a problem, but obviously those are both pretty easy to change as long as you're willing to spend the coin. I've ridden with plenty of motocross track junkies who straight up sucked it in the woods because their suspensions had way too much rebound and they were geared to be going fast all of the time.

[Chippertheripper]

Wr250r

[typeone]

if you stay 2-stroke... a 250cc MX'er with a heavier flywheel weight + gearing change + some guards can be a great all-around bike, woods or track. the suspension will be something to set up for your size, but younger 250 MX bikes are really versatile (i think).

[lrrs313]

I've heard nothing but good things about the KTM 300 EXC. Plenty of power, able to handle MX duty without problem. I'm not sure if they still do it but for a while the EXC line was fully street legal straight off the showroom floor as well.

[R7]

I've heard nothing but good things about the KTM 300 EXC. Plenty of power, able to handle MX duty without problem. I'm not sure if they still do it but for a while the EXC line was fully street legal straight off the showroom floor as well.

haved heard nothing but great things about the 300EXC (I think the newer ones are XCW or something). KTM also offers fully street legal 450cc and 530cc enduro bikes. Unlike the japanese street legal bikes, the KTM's are the same bike as full offroad models and the added the stuff to make them street legal.
As for the MX bike vs a woods bike...I never thought there was a huge difference until I recently bought a WR450 and could do a side by side comparison with a YZ450. YZ has close ratio transmission with high internal gearing, the WR has a wide ratio transmission with reasonably low internal gearing. The low gearing allows you to torque your way through the tight stuff with almost no clutch work, not a chance on doing that on the YZ...you need to ride the MXer fast to make it work good, which isn't always possible in trail riding.
No question, if most of your riding will be woods, get a woods bike. Vice versa if you plan on doing mostly MX. At your size, you're going to have to redo the suspension weather it's a woods bike or MX bike to work properly.
I know James mentioned the Honda motors are very different between the crf 250r and crf 250x? But I would think you can still get similar performance out of each? I know the Yamaha's you simply pull an exhaust plug out, snip a wire and install some jetting and the motors make very similar power.

If you want to try a MX bike VS a woods bike, let me know and you can try my YZ and WR. I geared the shit out of my YZ and still doesn't compare to the stock WR.

IMO, I'd go with the KTM 450, 525, or 530 EXC

[Woodsy]

ironicaly i can contribute nothing to this thread

[breakdirt916]

haved heard nothing but great things about the 300EXC (I think the newer ones are XCW or something). KTM also offers fully street legal 450cc and 530cc enduro bikes. Unlike the japanese street legal bikes, the KTM's are the same bike as full offroad models and the added the stuff to make them street legal.
As for the MX bike vs a woods bike...I never thought there was a huge difference until I recently bought a WR450 and could do a side by side comparison with a YZ450. YZ has close ratio transmission with high internal gearing, the WR has a wide ratio transmission with reasonably low internal gearing. The low gearing allows you to torque your way through the tight stuff with almost no clutch work, not a chance on doing that on the YZ...you need to ride the MXer fast to make it work good, which isn't always possible in trail riding.
No question, if most of your riding will be woods, get a woods bike. Vice versa if you plan on doing mostly MX. At your size, you're going to have to redo the suspension weather it's a woods bike or MX bike to work properly.
I know James mentioned the Honda motors are very different between the crf 250r and crf 250x? But I would think you can still get similar performance out of each? I know the Yamaha's you simply pull an exhaust plug out, snip a wire and install some jetting and the motors make very similar power.

If you want to try a MX bike VS a woods bike, let me know and you can try my YZ and WR. I geared the shit out of my YZ and still doesn't compare to the stock WR.

IMO, I'd go with the KTM 450, 525, or 530 EXC

everything he said. I want to re-iterate that MX bikes, compared to woods bikes, are more than just suspension, flywheels, and sprockets. And when considering woods, don't forget about KTM!

the only things I'd add are:

1.) the KTM's are easier to street register because the title does NOT say "for offroad use only" on the bottom...

2.) don't spend $500 on a 1985-2000 model MX bike...once you're done w' bearings/clutch/top end/bottom end/wheels/fork seals/shock servicing/re-valved suspension, you'll be into it another $800-$2,000. Total, you're in as much as a newer bike, with all those things already done on them. The only difference is, when you go to sell that vintage bike, you're only going to get $500 for it. The only reasons I'd recommend the older bikes are to "learn on", while rebuilding all the parts on it, or because you have an affinity for all things vintage.

[KB]

Trials tire.


Look for an 05ish KTMexc250 you can get a mint one for under 3k. I love mine. It's a 2stroke and I can lug the thing down to a crawl and require no clutch to get her moving. Starts first kick every time.

But yeah since buying a woods specific bike, I will never go back to trying to working and mx bike over for woods duty.

KTM woods bikes are ready to roll buy, gas up, and ride. Nothing to do to it, well in your case other than the suspension. But even that you'd be all right at first ride it the first season do the suspension over the winter.

KB

[tls25rs]

Thanks for the replies everybody, I was thinking about looking at the orange bikes anyhow and a few good points were made about them. Might be orange or maybe blue just due to easy parts availablility. I'll have to do some research and see what I come up with then ride the hell out of the thing all summer.

Joel

[Expat]

KTM200 EXC.
Weight similar to the 125 you have but more grunt. I can ride mine in the woods all day in second and third gear but it still gets up and go's when you need it too!!

[out thumped]

I've heard nothing but good things about the KTM 300 EXC. Plenty of power, able to handle MX duty without problem. I'm not sure if they still do it but for a while the EXC line was fully street legal straight off the showroom floor as well.

I agree, with the above. If you get a MX bike, they hit to agressivly for the woods. IMO. The 300 is light and lugs great, espesially for a XXXL guy like you.
I have a 450XCW that is plated. I love electric start, wide gear range, lots of low end tourque for chugging through nasty stuff and it is jetted well so it never stalls. It may be boring if you like to shift and clutch, It is like an automatic. I also have a KDX200, great bike, but I am now partial to the thumper. The 450 is heavy to pick up, more power than I need in tight, nasty, but on dual sport rides it is great and until yopu hit 100mph on a dirt road, well you have never lived!
It is a great comprimise bike. I would pick either. The 300 now have electric start also!
Enjoy.
OT