Yamaha aims for the woods (and KTM) - 2015 YZ250FX + WR250F

[typeone]

wonder if they will X the 2-strokes as well ? i think they would please a decent amount of off-roaders if they did.

2015 YZ250FX

2015 WR250F

2015 Yamaha WR250F YZ250FX Revealed

[typeone]

[Chippertheripper]

As I said over there: I wanna ride one. I've been pining for a 250 4t.

[typeone]

you just missed out... demo program was up in Concord, NH on the 5th.

[nhbubba]

Oooo to that WR. Which KTM does this match up to? The 250 XCF-W?

KTM publishes weights without fuel => 232.6 lbs.
Yami publishes with fuel => 258 lbs

2.1 gal tank x 8.34 lbs/gal => 17.5 lbs ... so about ~8 lbs heavier than the KTM. Or about 60 (sixty!!!) lbs lighter than my DRZ.

Worthy upgrade maybe.

[typeone]

Oooo to that WR. Which KTM does this match up to? The 250 XCF-W?

i don't know much about KTM but i don't think so. the WR is street ready.

hmm, maybe i'm reading that wrong... what exactly is "50-state off-road compliant"? working so i can't look too closely right now.

Chip will know the Pumpkin equivalent.

[Chippertheripper]

Yeah, the wr is about the same spec as the Xcfw.

I'm a little more interested in the fx, which is more in line with the xcf, assuming the suspension is up to par.

[Rambunctous]

I have both brands. When I put the bikes side by side and compare the KTM simply has better components. Of course we all know the Brembo brakes and Magiliro controls and the brand name suspension, tires, chain are better but the little things are better too. Things like the frame and chain guide and handlebars and swingarm and triple clamps are better. Even the bolts are better quality. The plastics are better and even the graphics cost more to make. If I were to remove the kickstarters from both bikes and have you examine them and asked which one was better you would pick the KTM. Every single and I mean every single individual component is better on the KTM.

[Chippertheripper]

^ for once I'm inclined to agree with you, but I really think these yammies are gonna be worth a look.
No other Japanese company is bridging the gap between trail bike and mx'er right now.

[Kurlon]

KTM has great individual components, but man some of the over / wacky engineering they do... Compare KTM / BMW to Japanese engineering schemas:

KTM / BMW / Ze Germans - We can only do this with 189 beautifully machined from billet pieces. We tried to do it with 190 but it just couldn't be done.

Japanese big 4 - We did the same thing with 3 pieces, two of which we reused from another machine, and the 3rd covers both this function and two others. They're all cheap to mfg castings with no post processing required. It's not beautiful, but it's reliable and meets the desired performance specifications.

[nhbubba]

I'm scanning the specs and can't see a huge difference between the two. The WR comes with (some) lights and would likely be easy to plate. Hence the appeal from where I sit. No plate => non-starter for me.

Isn't this kind of like the 500 exc vs xcw: If you want a plate, get the streetier version as you are going to add the lights anyway? If you don't, don't bother.

I'm half-seriously almost ready for a real dirt/enduro. The DRZ was a nice way to sample the genre with something I was comfortable approaching and didn't cost too much.

But dear gawd am I terrified about owning a european motorcycle. Buy in price, maintenance complexity and parts availability all seem ... less desirable ... with all the European options.

If you guys say its worth it, I'll take your words for it.

Just to be clear, we aren't comparing these to something relatively pedestrian like the WR250r, are we?

[Chippertheripper]

The exc/xcw are both platable. If you want to pass a full dot inspection AFTER you walk out of the registry with a tag get the exc. (the newer exc. previous gen exc was just the designation for Offroad bike)
If you don't care about passing an inspection, skip the w and just get an xc, because it's a better woods bike.

Ive said this a thousand times: the "maintenance whore" thing is a myth. Anything is going to require more love than a drz. But a KTM is no worse than a crf, kx, yz, or rm.
the new wr should be cammed significantly less aggressively that the xf counterpart. It also comes with lights out the box, and probably a lesser chassis/suspension/brakes. It's a price point bike, just like a drz.

[Garandman]

Ive said this a thousand times: the "maintenance whore" thing is a myth. Anything is going to require more love than a drz. But a KTM is no worse than a crf, kx, yz, or rm.

[Chippertheripper]

Do I get an f??

[ZX-12R]

I can also add that my EXC is very well thought out and easy to work on. Everything I've had to wrench on so far, including valve checks, has taken far less time than expected and minimal swearing. These bikes are designed to be wrenched on quickly between motos and on the side of the trail. Everything is much easier to work on versus a modern Japanese street bike.

With the 2011 and earlier models, the XC-W had better engine internals than the EXC and a few other differences with componentry to make it a better race solution. With the 2012+ models, the engines have the same internals and what sets them apart are extra lights, horn, emissions control equipment, and fuel injection mapping which is leaner in spots. Everything else including the suspension and transmission is identical. My dealer yanked the emissions equipment and loaded the XC-W map for free making the differences even smaller. The upside to the EXC is it's 50 state legal right off the showroom floor although in NH it is very simple to make an XC-W street legal (including the 2T models).

The next time we cross paths, you're still welcome to try my 500. I've been having ridiculous amounts of fun with it!

[nhbubba]

I need to cross your path.

[Chippertheripper]

He just cost you a lot of money.

[nhbubba]

I personally really don't want a 500 though. I want something smaller, even lighter. 250cc (like these Yamis) seems like a reasonable size for a 4-stroke. Also wonder how the 200cc 2-stroke is.

[typeone]

if you want light, go 2T

[R7]

Every single and I mean every single individual component is better on the KTM.

Somewhat agree...except the engine! Now if KTM could just make an engine as reliable and easy to work on as the Yamaha thumper, your opinion could be backed facts. I've had my fair share of Yamaha thumpers, and a couple KTM thumpers..I'll take the Yamaha all day over the KTM for the simple fact that nothing breaks, nothing leaks, and they don't overheat after idling for more than 30 seconds, and most importantly, the Yamaha valves stay in spec for ever, where the KTM needs adjusting what seems like every oil change. 2-strokes don't apply, just talking 4-strokes

[Chippertheripper]

The 5hunny doesn't weigh much more. My 300 was resting a couple weeks ago so I went dirtybike riding on an 09 530. I was expecting it to be some sort of behemoth, coughdrzcough, and I was more than pleasantly surprised how easy it was to straight shred that thing through the trees. All the power & torque one could ever want didnt hurt either.

The 200 is another game entirely. Although it is (can be) a street legal dirty, it is NOT a dualsport. Neither is the 300. It sucks to ride around on the street. It is light, and once you figure out the power and how to apply it, very easy to ride. Same thing with the 300. Except it's even easier to ride lazily. (In the woods)
To me the 250 is more like the 300 than the 200, despite it being dead in the middle. I've ridden 2 different 250's tuned different ways, snappy as heck, and mellow and smooth. I like the smoother curve better, I guess, which is why I've been wanting a 4t again. Especially after riding that 530. I want a little one.

[TTD]

I have had zero trouble with my 2007 KTM450exc. I had the overheating issue that Mark mentioned above, but I checked the forums and stopped filling the radiator to the very top - and problem solved. Now I just barely cover the fins inside... about an inch or so below filler cap.

I also was worried about maintenance, etc, but for average woods riding - it's simple. Of course, the 450 is so powerful I am barely stressing the motor 99% of the time. When I change the oil it looks brand new, and have yet to find valves out of adjustment.

I wish the WR versions of the Yamaha came street ready like my KTM.

[ZX-12R]

I personally really don't want a 500 though. I want something smaller, even lighter. 250cc (like these Yamis) seems like a reasonable size for a 4-stroke. Also wonder how the 200cc 2-stroke is.

In the KTM 4T realm, there isn't too much separating the models. The 250 XCF-W is 233lbs with no kick starter, 350 XCF-W = 236lbs, 450 XC-W, 245lbs, 500 XC-W = 245lbs. The 500 is 12lbs heaver than the 250 and has a little less than double the horsepower. You would have to jump to the 2T world if you want to save any more weight.

[ZX-12R]

I had the overheating issue that Mark mentioned above...

My '13 500 EXC runs quite hot and I had an overheating problem early on which was ultimately due to a faulty radiator cap. I changed it and haven't had any problems since. Also, the thermal switch for my radiator fan failed open and the dealer sent me a replacement no questions asked but I haven't put it in yet. I wired my fan so it's always on while the key is on which has helped keep things cool. The EXC's have enough charging system capacity to run it constantly without issue.

[breakdirt916]

Whooaaaaa!!

That looks awesome!

Kind of reminds how the bike of choice in the woods is regularly an mx bike, adapted with a flywheel weight, handguards, and different gearing/suspension if possible

I love the power and race prep of a full mx bike...I hate the close ratio trans in tight trails though

But then again, I don't know 4 strokes...do the newer mx bikes have a wider ratio because of thr broader powerband?