Derek's awesome and never ending thread

[xsiliconkid]

This is quite interesting as I was just digging around on the CSS site and came across a good thread on this stuff and found this diagram.

Bingo........ the last two pics... (while the sit up is extreme - more like Greenwood's style)

First Derek has good fast corner speed.... but wants to go quicker through the turns.

T2.
Derek was turning-in quick enough and at about the right spot - but at and just after the APEX he was right on the edge of the tire....so much so that I backed off a bit and hoped he would not crack the throttle more......


Derek's style is extreme aggressive lay down -but is so low that he is laying on the tank – in the pits I positioned him on the bike higher but still like MOTOgp shots… even raising up 4 or 5 inches felt weird as he is now so use to the lay down position.

There are definitely two different styles as outlined in this pic I took in t6 a couple of years back of the Wood brothers….. Eric is up higher and at the last moment even tilts his head over more (not shown) to get the 10-15lbs out and off the bike even further. You can see the more upright style rider just before an Apex lean their upper body off further to help “bend” the bike throught the turn… this is where the knee into the tank comes into play.

I was trying to postion Derek higher, into the postion of Jeff (behind) that's how low he was....There is such a thing as being too low...

Derek, in scanning John Owens pics at th etrack there were a coiupe of shots of you (in T9) i think that shows you in the super low spiderman position:-)....

[xsiliconkid]

Graham's point is valid. If you try the more upright position you may be able to reduce your lean angle.

I don't believe that you can roll off the edge of a tire. IMO The tire flexes into the ground no matter what you lean angle. It's controling the bike at those high lean angles that gets tough.

Paul, it's not roll off the tire - it's add power with little traction and spin up and lose traction. (contact patch gets even smaller)

[SVRACER01]

… even raising up 4 or 5 inches felt weird as he is now so use to the lay down position.

.

this why its important to get "help" before any bad habits are formed.

[DerekSBelanger]

i think that youre trying too hard to get your knee down.

this why its important to get "help" before any bad habits are formed.

Thanks, Ox. Honest, I really like the down to earth advice you give.

But I think we need to meet in person or something because I must be doing something to trick you....

Whenever I'm at the track all I do, all day long, is look for help. Neither am I the "try to get knee down" kind of person. In fact I'm riding in an Aerostich that dosent have knee sliders so I'm trying really hard not to touch my knee!

[Paul_E_D]

There's one problem right there. Get a proper suit. It will allow you to get that knee down and get you more aware of your lean angles in different parts of the corner. Compensating for the lack of knee sliders will screw up you body position and make you less relaxed.

[DerekSBelanger]

First Derek has good fast corner speed....

Thats the kind of stuff I like to hear!

T2.
Derek was turning-in quick enough and at about the right spot - but at and just after the APEX he was right on the edge of the tire....so much so that I backed off a bit and hoped he would not crack the throttle more......

If I'm scaring the big guy I better be scared myself! Sorry about that, Gram. Honestly, I feel planted doing what I do in that corner. I grabed a frame from some video - its kinda intersting.

Derek's style is extreme aggressive lay down -but is so low that he is laying on the tank – in the pits I positioned him on the bike higher but still like MOTOgp shots… even raising up 4 or 5 inches felt weird as he is now so use to the lay down position.

There are definitely two different styles as outlined in this pic I took in t6 a couple of years back of the Wood brothers….. Eric is up higher and at the last moment even tilts his head over more (not shown) to get the 10-15lbs out and off the bike even further. You can see the more upright style rider just before an Apex lean their upper body off further to help “bend” the bike throught the turn… this is where the knee into the tank comes into play.

I was trying to postion Derek higher, into the postion of Jeff (behind) that's how low he was....There is such a thing as being too low...

Oh man, if I'm lower than that...you'd better kick my butt...thats crazy...even if it does feel comfortable.

Derek, in scanning John Owens pics at th etrack there were a coiupe of shots of you (in T9) i think that shows you in the super low spiderman position:-)....

He didnt put any of my T9 pics on the website

[DerekSBelanger]

There's one problem right there. Get a proper suit. It will allow you to get that knee down and get you more aware of your lean angles in different parts of the corner. Compensating for the lack of knee sliders will screw up you body position and make you less relaxed.

Could be! Pete has told me to "get real leathers" too....

[DerekSBelanger]

My kids were there Tuesday and were teasing me....A girl just passed you Dad...On a PINK Bike....

Then I showed them it was no girl...(Thank God)

Hehe. Which is worse, to be passed by a girl or to be passed by a guy who is mistaken for a girl?

Awww man, I suck.

I thought you were riding really good! I remember following you (Repsol leathers, right?) through T1-2 and thinking "his line is better than mine!"

[DerekSBelanger]

VIDEO!

Thanks to Trouble for uploading this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziqk8IYaa8M

[FireboltEric_MA]

Hehe. Which is worse, to be passed by a girl or to be passed by a guy who is mistaken for a girl?

Awww man, I suck.

I thought you were riding really good! I remember following you (Repsol leathers, right?) through T1-2 and thinking "his line is better than mine!"

Haha..to funny! Yup That is me in the Repsol....After you passed me I was following you and watching your body position trying to "mimic" it, thinking "Damned does he get down low", wonder if it is any good?! I am trying it!!!...

It felt a little awkward to me doing it that way through some turns but fine in others. I been watching this thread and picking up a lot of info from all this....

It was good to follow other guys while there and see other styles of riding & There Line trying to find "My" groove in all this track time... Still new to track days & Still trying to find my fast, but keep getting better with each day out there.

I was able to get the kids hooked while there.... So I will have a "Pit Crew" next time...

Hope to see you there again soon! Was a fun day for sure!

[Hoss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOqYbIakRTo

I had some friends come out and watch and he grabbed a few clips. This one has you in it. I'm the big guy, all crossed up ( I think) and missing the line in front of you.

If you go to youtube itself the video is wide screen HD. You can see yourself much better. In his comments he says I'm smooth. At least I've got someone fooled LOL

[DerekSBelanger]

Thanks, Hoss! I cant seem to figure out how to embed the youtube object....there must be more to it than pasting in the embed code (just shows up as a string of text).

Whats the trick?

[DerekSBelanger]

Frankly, I think your form looks 10 times better than it did in seasons past where you were trying to hump the side of your bike

You didn’t like it when I humped the bike, eh? We have a name for that strong negative feeling of dislike.

Jealousy.

[Hoss]

Thanks, Hoss! I cant seem to figure out how to embed the youtube object....there must be more to it than pasting in the embed code (just shows up as a string of text).

Whats the trick?

Click on the youtube button up top and paste in the youtube URL code (not embed).

At least, I think that is what I did.

[DerekSBelanger]

Click on the youtube button up top and paste in the youtube URL code (not embed).

At least, I think that is what I did.

I owe you a beer, sir!

[xsiliconkid]

The yellow bike missed the turn in to T3 (in slow mo) and Derek, you followed him right in...
1. Don't follow the line of the bike in front...
2. focus on your markers.....
3. In T3 the marker reference points (for starters) are:
a turn in cone and x, (quick turn in not street turn in)
b inside Apex /rumble strip,
c corner of the patch just after the inside apex...
d when at or before "b", vision needs to be up at the T4 cone....

[Hoss]

The yellow bike missed the turn in to T3 (in slow mo) and Derek, you followed him right in...
1. Don't follow the line of the bike in front...
2. focus on your markers.....
3. In T3 the marker reference points (for starters) are:
a turn in cone and x, (quick turn in not street turn in)
b inside Apex /rumble strip,
c corner of the patch just after the inside apex...
d when at or before "b", vision needs to be up at the T4 cone....

It's funny, I thought I was doing it so well until I saw the video (I'm the yellow bike). Hopefully I can make it back once more this year to work on it.

[Paul_E_D]

Nice video quality and the slow-mo is really cool. Was that the same lap twice? Because they missed it both times!

[Hoss]

Well, I'm sure I screwed it up every time, but yeah that was the same lap.

In the "other videos" from the user there is another clip of me sucking through 1/1a and 2

[DerekSBelanger]

I miss the apex of T3 fairly often when I'm trying to go faster - it happens because I dont ahve nay feeling for the front end in the corner and a little extra speed makes me uncertain enought that I delay turn in.

I think I understand now why slowing down and making the apex of 3 (every time) is a lot more important than trying to find more entry speed.

What's he say? Less haste - more speed?

[Paul_E_D]

Try trail braking up to the tiger's teeth. That's where you'll find some feel for the front. coasting from the X to the teeth makes the front end feel vague and like it's coming out from under you (because it is).

I miss the apex of T3 fairly often when I'm trying to go faster - it happens because I dont ahve nay feeling for the front end in the corner and a little extra speed makes me uncertain enought that I delay turn in.

I think I understand now why slowing down and making the apex of 3 (every time) is a lot more important than trying to find more entry speed.

What's he say? Less haste - more speed?

[OreoGaborio]

yup... i'm trailing to the rumbles as well.... sometimes a little beyond. Wanna be off the brakes & back on the throttle by the bumps though.


But that's racing.

[xsiliconkid]

Well, I'm sure I screwed it up every time, but yeah that was the same lap.

In the "other videos" from the user there is another clip of me sucking through 1/1a and 2

Come on back we will sort you out...... ask ask ask ask.......
The old adage, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease (unlike an old cranky boss of mine use to say...."or get's replaced":-)

[xsiliconkid]

I miss the apex of T3 fairly often ......I dont have any feeling for the front end in

maybe if you din't lay on the bike like it's a feather bed....

[xsiliconkid]

THE TURN IN, THE TIGER'S TEETH, & THE PATCH.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZKYRzegjdk

2 of the informous now extinct SRR team...... (Paul, Chris, Graham, Ken, Debbie).......