Price of trackdays

[OreoGaborio]

they argument that the risk is less is invalid, there are more injuries and bike damage per mile at the track

Actually, it's COMPLETELY valid.

Your injury and bike damage per mile argument, while factually correct, doesn't actually have anything at all to do with the environment itself in which the riders are riding. Instead it has to do with how the riders themselves are riding in the environment that they're in.

In a closed course environment the likelihood of outside forces (other traffic, surface debris, etc) being a contributing factor to a crash are virtually NIL. Zip, zero, nada. Thus, we ride much harder & closer to our limits for pretty much the entire time we're on the bike. You don't do that on the street, do you? Of course not.

If we all rode on the track like we do on the street, I guaranfuckintee you there would be LESS injuries and bike damage per mile at the track compared to the street and your argument would be proved invalid.

If you flip the scenario and we all rode on the street like we do on the track, I guaranfukintee you there would be MORE injuries and bike damage per mile on the street compared to the track, and again, your argument would be proved invalid.

It's a proved human phenomenon.... if you reduce the external risk (environmental, equipment, etc) we simply increase our own internal (behavioral) risk. In addition to that, it could be argued that those riders who take it to the track assume more risk in their riding to begin with...

All of this is a long way of saying this: The TRACK presents no danger whatsoever to the rider. It's the rider that presents the danger to themselves.

[tsorfas]

Sam is gonna find investors and open his own damn track.
And make me VP of sales

[sdog30]

Sam is gonna find investors and open his own damn track.
And make me VP of sales

Ha, not exactly. I'm just a track whore like you, looking for the best deal.

Although I do find some of the animosity toward nyst interesting. As a track day org I get being upset at feeling priced out of track days by them, but as a track day rider, I welcome the lower prices by eliminating the middle man.

Now if we can just get Palmer and NHMS bought by wealthy track day riders...

[TTD]

To clarify, I hold no animosity to nyst.

I will say here what I have said to them directly, and everyone that asks me why I don't run at nyst.

If they are happy selling directly to riders and getting X dollars that day... Then rent to me for X dollars also!

Don't charge me 3 X.

[sdog30]

So here's a little fun fact I got from kumpy last night. Apparently tracks are not open all year long out there either. I guess it gets so hot in the summer, that the tracks close from May to September. And yet they are still cheaper.

[OreoGaborio]

There are HUNDREDS of variables that go into track rental pricing. Length of season is ONE.
Now factor in the other 99+.

[sdog30]

There are HUNDREDS of variables that go into track rental pricing. Length of season is ONE.
Now factor in the other 99+.

I just thought it was interesting.

When someone mentioned the length of our season as being a factor, I thought that sounded reasonable and was under the impression that tracks in warmer climates were open all year. To find out they close because it's too hot was surprising to me.

[csmutty]

Dead horse. Has been beaten.

[sdog30]

Dead horse. Has been beaten.

Okay, I'll just wait until this winter to bring it back up.

What do you think, February?

[OreoGaborio]

Okay, I'll just wait until this winter to bring it back up.

What do you think, February?

lol that works

[Tas]

Ya, I went to Phoenix last July and stopped by their track. CLOSED UP TIGHT. It was only 106 degrees.

[Pittenger5]

Ya, I went to Phoenix last July and stopped by their track. CLOSED UP TIGHT. It was only 106 degrees.

There were track days down here a couple weeks ago. 105.
Hell, I think Ill hit the track next weekend. Though forecast is only for the mid 90s.

[Chippertheripper]

YOURE GONNA MELT!!!!!

[FirstDuc-1098]

YOURE GONNA MELT!!!!!

Gingers don't melt, they burst into flames

[scottieducati]

To clarify, I hold no animosity to nyst.

I will say here what I have said to them directly, and everyone that asks me why I don't run at nyst.

If they are happy selling directly to riders and getting X dollars that day... Then rent to me for X dollars also!

Don't charge me 3 X.

So you can take no risk, have no $ invested in the property, and get the bargain basement price the same as the investor himself accepting fewer than desired signups?

I want to go to your business school this sounds awesome

[JettaJayGLS]

So you can take no risk, have no $ invested in the property, and get the bargain basement price the same as the investor himself accepting fewer than desired signups?

I want to go to your business school this sounds awesome

Actually...if the NYST rents the track to Tony for the same price as would receive for selling out a track day, than NYST is taking no risk and Tony is assuming all risk.

I have no more information than what is presented in this thread, just using context clues.

[TTD]

So you can take no risk, have no $ invested in the property, and get the bargain basement price the same as the investor himself accepting fewer than desired signups?

I want to go to your business school this sounds awesome

EDIT: Jay beat me to it! I was typing below when his response popped up.

How do you figure no risk? In a rental, the track is now guaranteed their money. I am agreeing to do all the work that the track is now doing to fill the spots. The track is the one that passes off some risk by renting to me.

My point is simple though.

Once the track starts selling direct to riders, they have now set the price that riders expect to pay to ride that track ... so any renter would need to charge substantially the same amount.

Any rental agreement must then allow the renter to also charge that price per rider - and make a profit (for all the risk and work required to run the day).

[OreoGaborio]

What they said...

The track selling trackdays direct to the customer just meant that they're now assuming every single shred of risk there is, along with a lot more work... and quite possibly for less money. I don't get it.

They had the demand, they had the supply, yet they still went wholesale with it.

[tsorfas]

You are saying they shouldn't?
It seems to be working out pretty good for them.
Mind you I'm not a fan. I never went. I probably never will.
But from the business side of things it all seems to work for them very good.

[scottieducati]

Millions vs. thousands... Not the same level of risk.

Bottom line they own it and can do what they want. Plenty of tracks have discount days and track day organizations running dates more expensive. It's up to the organization to sell their added value. Tons of situations where retail fights with direct discount sales. What you are asking for, is also known as price fixing or collusion.

Now if the track sells dates to one org at one price and another at a different price for the same product, then we have another debate.

Edit: bad grammar.

[TTD]

Bottom line they own it and can do what they want.

I completely agree with this and as I said, I hold no ill will toward them.

I like the whole family and the dates we had there were awesome.

I simply stated why TTD is no longer running there.

[sdog30]

I understand why a track day org wouldn't want to be under cut by the track. I also have heard plenty in this thread about why TTD is better than other track day orgs, so I would think loyal costumers would still do track days with TTD given the choice due to all the positives listed by others. Also, people who do the membership would be more apt to sign up with TTD because it's a hundred dollars less.

That being said, I would like to mention almost every track day org pulled out at the first sight of the legal trouble that NYST had and it pretty much forced Greg to start promoting and running events on his own, more than he was before. He was successful with it, so decided to continue that route since and has been selling out almost every weekend, so apparently he's doing something right.

TPM is still doing regular days there and seem to be doing well enough that they do it.

[maxim_X]

I never went. I probably never will.

Taking all business aspects out of it, you should do yourself the favor and put a few laps on that track at some point. It's serious fun.

[tsorfas]

Taking all business aspects out of it, you should do yourself the favor and put a few laps on that track at some point. It's serious fun.

Lots of people I respect as riders have told me that (yourself included).
Yet I just don't have the desire to drive that far (4-5 hours I think?) to do a track day.

[TTD]

I understand why a track day org wouldn't want to be under cut by the track. I also have heard plenty in this thread about why TTD is better than other track day orgs, so I would think loyal costumers would still do track days with TTD given the choice due to all the positives listed by others. Also, people who do the membership would be more apt to sign up with TTD because it's a hundred dollars less.

That being said, I would like to mention almost every track day org pulled out at the first sight of the legal trouble that NYST had and it pretty much forced Greg to start promoting and running events on his own, more than he was before. He was successful with it, so decided to continue that route since and has been selling out almost every weekend, so apparently he's doing something right.

TPM is still doing regular days there and seem to be doing well enough that they do it.

Again, I'm happy that they found a solution that lets them keep the doors open. Maybe someday they will offer us an arrangement that lets me bring TTD customers there again.

Unfortunately, it gets harder and harder because the vast majority of our riders live in New England (unlike TPM). With the proliferation of tracks here now, getting riders to travel to NY is tough.