Track Tire Help

[smarblewnec]

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And I'm with squirrel. Most highsides that I've seen in 4 were caused in part because the rider was a little off line. Typically they try to correct by adding a steering input but they continue rolling on the gas as usual.

Good to know.

[Paul_E_D]

Turning in more after the apex is the #1 error I see trackday riders make. Even quick guys seem to do it a lot, and I cringe while following. I can see the highside in my head before it even happens. Out of T2 and T4 seem to be the worst spots for this. Rider turns in too slowly, or too late, misses the apex, but gets on the gas anyway. Then they need to make one last steering input to get the bike pointed in the right direction and wahbam! What happened??!!

[nt650hawk]

I'm going out on a limb and going to say that you tires were not hot enough but rather cold. and I'm going to say that you only checked your tiers once, and that was in the morning. I could be wrong.

When did you check your tire pressure. Being that hot in the day you probably saw a 6-7 psi growth. This would make you tires fee "greasy" and not looking to grip. If you set them at a 30 -30 in the morning this would not cause the tire to flex much later in the day and not build up an appropriate amount of heat as well as not having the appropriate contact patch. This leads to cold tear.

Lately at track days 1/2 way thru the day people are not feeling like the tires are not gripping or ranging/squirreling hunting around for traction underneath them. First question I always ask is. When was the last time you checked you tire pressure? Most of them say that they just set them in the morning and forget about it. That may be fine when it's 70 degrees throughout the entire day and overcast (no sun heating the track). But that does not happen so much. I check mine throughout the day right off of the track after I take my helmet and gloves off. This is the best time to analyze what you, the track and air temp are doing to you tire. It is not until the last session I am constantly letting air out on a warming day. More air is released in the morning and little fine tuning towards the end of the day.

If you use tire warmers, this gets you close to your operating temperature. You will find a difference when you come in and check you PSI after a session from you Tire warmer PSI to your Track PSI. You have to understand track temp and air temp to make the necessary correction with the Tire Warmer PSI to achieve the appropriate Track PSI. This takes time to figure out.


Any modern Street/Track day tire will work well for you. Just recognize what the tires are telling you.

[Pittenger5]

Squirrelly, he means the novices were watching. They bring noobs up to the 4-9 grass to watch the advanced sessions just after lunch. (bomo)

Those were always my favorite sessions. I still wished Id stuffed CEO into turn 1 that one time.

But yah, you save a high side the first couple times, you got lucky. Ive done it, and I sure as shit didnt save it myself. Plus my bike only makes 50 horsepower, that helps.

Oh, and my best advice? Listen to Paul, Gino and MAYBE Pete (depending on how fantastic his goatee looks at the time).

[OreoGaborio]

Oh, and my best advice? Listen to Paul, Gino and MAYBE Pete (depending on how fantastic his goatee looks at the time).

It's a little shaggy today, I gotta trim it

[smarblewnec]

I'm going out on a limb and going to say that you tires were not hot enough but rather cold. and I'm going to say that you only checked your tiers once, and that was in the morning. I could be wrong.

I was checking tire pressure after each lap in the morning as soon as I took off my helmet and gloves until about 1pm. My wife and a friend showed up around 1 or 2 and we had lunch. I think when they showed up I was distracted and didn't check them for a session or two.

Earlier in the day I had to let out some air because they we getting in the 34 to 35 range. As for how hot they were... the crash was in the 4th lap of the session so they were hot by then.

I am just chalking it up to most likely rider error with a possibility of too much air pressure. I just want to do my best to make sure it doesn't happen again for a loooooong time.

[nt650hawk]

I was checking tire pressure after each lap in the morning as soon as I took off my helmet and gloves until about 1pm. My wife and a friend showed up around 1 or 2 and we had lunch. I think when they showed up I was distracted and didn't check them for a session or two.

Earlier in the day I had to let out some air because they we getting in the 34 to 35 range. As for how hot they were... the crash was in the 4th lap of the session so they were hot by then.

I am just chalking it up to most likely rider error with a possibility of too much air pressure. I just want to do my best to make sure it doesn't happen again for a loooooong time.

Sounds like you are a monitor of Tire pressure.

My last track day. I knew my tire was trashed and stepping out. Knowing that my tire pressures were were I wanted them I started to play around with my rebound and compression settings. T4 is where I working with getting the rear to step out slightly the entire length to the top of the hill.
I tightened up the rebound 1 click and found the stepping out got worse. next session I loosened it up 2 click. Now for the original, 1 click softer and it got better. It's been a while since I been playing with suspension setting because NJMP is so smooth. At Loudon, it is always a game of chess in trying to figure out the settings. Don't be afraid to have someone look at your suspension and don't be afraid to try one set of screws at a time to see if things can get better.

[SVRACER01]

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As soon as the tire started to slide you chopped the throttle...... hats why you highsided. Shoulda stayed on the gas.... maybe you would've just lowsided

[CBR929RE]

That's reassuring! Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a negatron, but I have done a LOT of racing, crashing and instructing. The first handful of crashes usually come as a total surprise and offer the rider very little feedback as to why it happened. Sliding on pavement is not what people think it is. Especially on michelins! Lol. Pirellis do actually make it a little easier to save, but they slide sooner as well. Regardless, beginners crash on all makes of tires and are left wondering what the hell happened. It's just how it is.

Getting lucky proves my point. That's about all the chance you have, cause you reacting to the slide, not predicting it.

I was just messing with ya. like I said mine was pure bullshit dumb luck that I saved it. and I know what caused mine. I thought to myself I'm gonna put my head down and see what I can do for a fast lap when actually trying. hard on the gas up the hill and whoop there it almost went.

Since when is the Novice Trackday Group the Benchmark? You got Lucky skill had nothing to do it.

People highside in 4 Because they are not on the correct line. They get to far outside the corner. Best way to not Highside in 4 Is to be smooth and and fast through 3 The more speed you can smoothly carry through 3 the better.

Example Take a fast car go 10 miles an hour floor it The wheels spin. Take that same car go 45 and floor it No tire spin.

And buy Dunlops

as Chip said the novices were watching from near the ambulance at the top of the hill. I wish someone had gotten it on camera.

[TTD]

Hmm... interesting thread.

Lots of stuff being thrown around, but if the tire did not slide anywhere else that session, as you said, I would not blame the tires or pressures.

Given the location, I would bet the farm that you did not turn enough at the bottom of the hill, so as you were going up the hill you were adding both throttle and steering inputs... which is a recipe for disaster.

Ideally, once you start going up the hill, you should be reducing lean angle and adding throttle. To do this, you must get the bike turned at the bottom of the hill.

[butcher bergs]

It's turn 4. Nuff said.

[FireboltEric_MA]

I've made the appropriate sacrifice to the turn 4 gods....

You should be all set to rip through there now...Just don"t upset them again.

I have very little to offer them at this point.