Trackday Forum Crap

[TTD]

Somehow, the TTD name is being brought into the discussions about the recent incident at BostonMoto's trackday.

I want to be clear that I don't believe this was anything but a case of bad timing/luck.

In no way is TTD behind or promoting any of the threads that have popped up regarding this. We don't own the forums and we don't have any control over what customers say.

Anyone that does "work" for TTD knows our policy of staying out of things like this.

Anyway, knowing everyone will be physically OK, the only thing I would like to see happen now is to determine the precise cause of the failure and get that information out to others in an attempt to keep it from happening to someone else.

So please let the bullshit stop and let's move on to something productive.

[Pittenger5]

The community is lucky to have the available choices of trackdays, whether you prefer Tony's style or Bomo's style of doing things, a lot of people that might not have the need, or desire, to do one organizations style has the other which might suit their needs more.

[Degsy]

Thank-you Tony. That's our attitude also.

We are examining the bike and the video as well as talking to Thierry to decipher what happened and FIX it if we can.

None of us at Boston Moto are happy about it or the fact that we had 2 other crs down at the same event. We ran a 3 day event at VIR with 3 riders total down the whole event and then we run one at Loudon and we have 9 or 10 bikes down in a day. It's just the way things are in the trackday business.

I will say that the track was treacherous with grip yesterday. I had several big big slides myself. We also had a snow call in turn 8 at about 2:30pm. It was cold our other 2 crs are on race tires and were instructing very slow riders so the tires were certainly not up to temp. One crash was Ducdave for heaven's sake. 35mph he says. Like Tony said, it happens. It's unfortunate and we will address it as much as we can.

[TTD]

Unfortunately, with the number of track laps CR's put in, it's bound to happen that there will be some that go down.

Hell, our own KenC hit the pavement this year, so we know better than anyone that CR's aren't immune to going down.

[eboos]

Applause to both of you. Instead of this becoming a pissing match, it is great to you both taking the high road.

[Just_Jeff]

Pissing
Going Down
getting High

I seem to be missing a large part of the track day experience

[Kurlon]

I seem to be missing a large part of the track day experience

Ever been to a comic book and games store? You know, the one without air conditioning that's always holding a Pokemon/Magic tournament AND Vampire LARP whenever you show up? Yeah, it's just like that, only with bikes.

[CEO]

Good to see the amicable and sensible heads prevailing in this thread...

with the number of track laps CR's put in

You aren't kidding.... on Wednesday between riding in all groups at various points, I think I put in around 200 miles according to the odometer.... 125 laps!

[Tabby]

Good to see the amicable and sensible heads prevailing in this thread...

You aren't kidding.... on Wednesday between riding in all groups at various points, I think I put in around 200 miles according to the odometer.... 125 laps!

I bet you slept like a baby. I did. No wait, I slept like I used to after a marathon sex session. Now, if I could only remember what those used to be like!

[xsiliconkid]

Thank-you Tony. That's our attitude also.

We are examining the bike and the video as well as talking to Thierry to decipher what happened and FIX it if we can.

None of us at Boston Moto are happy about it or the fact that we had 2 other crs down at the same event. We ran a 3 day event at VIR with 3 riders total down the whole event and then we run one at Loudon and we have 9 or 10 bikes down in a day. It's just the way things are in the trackday business.

I will say that the track was treacherous with grip yesterday. I had several big big slides myself. We also had a snow call in turn 8 at about 2:30pm. It was cold our other 2 crs are on race tires and were instructing very slow riders so the tires were certainly not up to temp. One crash was Ducdave for heaven's sake. 35mph he says. Like Tony said, it happens. It's unfortunate and we will address it as much as we can.

Let me add just one comment.

1. The next day (Thursday) was just a little warmer and a NHMS track sponsored all day RACER MC practice/suspension set up day... I have never seen so many red flags...90% in the am/expert sessions. The ambulances were kept so busy I went out and stood in for a while flagging in T11 f to facilitate the track staying green.

Ps. I worked with Boston Moto on the Wed offering lap timing and it was cold...very cold day.
www.everylap.com

[brady]

the only thing I would like to see happen now is to determine the precise cause of the failure and get that information out to others in an attempt to keep it from happening to someone else.

+100

[Doc]

I am blissfully unaware.

[R7]

Anyway, knowing everyone will be physically OK, the only thing I would like to see happen now is to determine the precise cause of the failure and get that information out to others in an attempt to keep it from happening to someone else.

Just speculating but can't front end chatter or a tank slapper cause the pads to go back in the callipers a bit? It would usually take a couple pumps of the lever to get the brakes back? I know I've heard of it happening on the track before

[Tabby]

I think we should start by asking the CR just what he experienced. To have the pads pushed back in, it would take chatter or a wobble violent enough to cause enough flex in the fork tubes. That flex would cause enough mis-alignment between the rotors and the calipers, to push the pads back in. If the CR didn't experience wobble or chatter, that scenario could be ruled out. On my bike, I've always worried about the little spring clips that stop the pins {that hold the pads in place} from coming out. I've considered lock wiring them into place.

[DucDave]

Somehow, the TTD name is being brought into the discussions about the recent incident at BostonMoto's trackday.

I want to be clear that I don't believe this was anything but a case of bad timing/luck.

In no way is TTD behind or promoting any of the threads that have popped up regarding this. We don't own the forums and we don't have any control over what customers say.

Anyone that does "work" for TTD knows our policy of staying out of things like this.

Anyway, knowing everyone will be physically OK, the only thing I would like to see happen now is to determine the precise cause of the failure and get that information out to others in an attempt to keep it from happening to someone else.

So please let the bullshit stop and let's move on to something productive.

Thanks Tony....I've done a few of your days and and always enjoyed myself! You can expect to see me again too!!!

You guys have a lot too offer and I'd tell anyone that Tony's is a first class operation! Boston Moto did a damn fine job and every can expect it will be even better next year!

And next year is where I'm dreaming now....damn...such a fast season!!!

But what the heck is this Degs...!

will say that the track was treacherous with grip yesterday. I had several big big slides myself. We also had a snow call in turn 8 at about 2:30pm. It was cold our other 2 crs are on race tires and were instructing very slow riders so the tires were certainly not up to temp. One crash was Ducdave for heaven's sake.

...putting me up as the 'Poster Boy' for not crashing? Just cus I'm the slowest CR out there doesn't mean I want to have it pointed out to everyone!

[DucDave]

Let me add just one comment.

1. The next day (Thursday) was just a little warmer and a NHMS track sponsored all day RACER MC practice/suspension set up day... I have never seen so many red flags...90% in the am/expert sessions. The ambulances were kept so busy I went out and stood in for a while flagging in T11 f to facilitate the track staying green.

Ps. I worked with Boston Moto on the Wed offering lap timing and it was cold...very cold day.
www.everylap.com

Thanks to you too Graham!

BTW...that timing system ROCKS! (Now please delete all record of my laps!)

[DucDave]

On my bike, I've always worried about the little spring clips that stop the pins {that hold the pads in place} from coming out. I've considered lock wiring them into place.

Ahah...indeed, a couple years ago Graham recommended I do exactly that...and did with his help.

[scottieducati]

Group Hug.

[TTD]

There's two main designs for retaining brake pads.

One is a bolt through the pads, and the other is a pin.

The pin method usually has a hole on the back side for a retaining pin/clip.

If you have the bolt method (like the Honda CBR600rr that I ride), then you have to really screw up and ignore your bike before the bolt will fall out. Personally, I look at the bolt at the beginning of the day, and then again during the day. It is a recessed head so if it's not laying flush, it is obvious that it has begun to loosen.

The pin method of retention is much more susceptible to user error. If the retaining mechanism for the pin is not put in place properly and falls out, there is nothing really holding the pin in place. Hell, I've seen people completely forget to put the retaining clip in place because they are so focused on getting the pin to slide through the pads properly.

Anyway, not saying any of this is what happened, just using the thread to get people to think about their pads/calipers... and to take the time to fully understand the retention system used on their bike.

[eboos]

There's two main designs for retaining brake pads.

One is a bolt through the pads, and the other is a pin.

The pin method usually has a hole on the back side for a retaining pin/clip.

If you have the bolt method (like the Honda CBR600rr that I ride), then you have to really screw up and ignore your bike before the bolt will fall out. Personally, I look at the bolt at the beginning of the day, and then again during the day. It is a recessed head so if it's not laying flush, it is obvious that it has begun to loosen.

The pin method of retention is much more susceptible to user error. If the retaining mechanism for the pin is not put in place properly and falls out, there is nothing really holding the pin in place. Hell, I've seen people completely forget to put the retaining clip in place because they are so focused on getting the pin to slide through the pads properly.

Anyway, not saying any of this is what happened, just using the thread to get people to think about their pads/calipers... and to take the time to fully understand the retention system used on their bike.

Here is a link that Degsy gave me last year. This guy makes safety wire-able brake pad bolts and converts pin style calipers (like the SV650) to a threaded bolt style. I got one made, and he has a quick turn around and is easy to work with.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php...ht=safety+wire

[TTD]

Those are definitely the ultimate method.

He's not only using the bolt method, but then safety wiring the bolt... so that is definitely secure.

I've personally never seen an issue with the bolt types coming out, but it certainly could occur. A drop of loctite on the bolt is a good idea too since brake pads are changed so infrequently.

[CBR929RE]

Here is a link that Degsy gave me last year. This guy makes safety wire-able brake pad bolts and converts pin style calipers (like the SV650) to a threaded bolt style. I got one made, and he has a quick turn around and is easy to work with.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php...ht=safety+wire

thanks for spending some of my money (assuming he has some for my bike which I bet he will).