Arai Profile fails DOT

[RandyO]

http://media3.filewind.com/g.php?filepath=2219

[benVFR]

Failed one test by 1% when the helmet was chilled to between 14F and 28F.

Interesting.. but I'd like to see a response from Arai and/or a retest. Somehow I doubt multiple helmets would fail the same way.

I also wonder how cold it actually has to be to chill the helmet that much.. when you're wearing it you're heating it quite a bit.

[Degsy]

Originally posted by RandyO
http://media3.filewind.com/g.php?filepath=2219

[benVFR]

Randy BTW where did you find this document?

I can't find anything else about this on Google.

As much as I'd like to downplay it I can't, cause I wear that helmet, if there's anything wrong with it I'd like to know more.

[RandyO]

Originally posted by benVFR
Randy BTW where did you find this document?

I can't find anything else about this on Google.

As much as I'd like to downplay it I can't, cause I wear that helmet, if there's anything wrong with it I'd like to know more.

it was posted on the SV rider forum by one of the safety nazis

[Degsy]

I wasn't trying to downplay it either.

I just got one of these for my birthday and while the test failure is kind of interesting, the fact remains that their tests are so unrelated to the real world that it's just a joke.

I will trust Arai's testing much more than I will trust the Transport Agency's.

derek

[benVFR]

Degsy do you wear a medium? That's the size in question.

In any case it looks like helmet was designed to perform the way it did.

Arai must have decided that impact management was desirable for some other reason?

Cause all the tests were clustered very close to exactly the same impact results, very close to the DOT limit. (Perhaps they didn't want to be way under the limit?)

It's also a failure on a 2nd hit of the helmet to the exact same area.

It'd be interesting to see a bunch of these and see how SNELL & ECE rated helmets do on these tests versus DOT helmets which are not SNELL or ECE rated.

This test is also ancient.. how did it get out on the internet, maybe Arai changed something since then?

[Degsy]

Yep, mine is a medium

derek

[RandyO]

Originally posted by benVFR


This test is also ancient.. how did it get out on the internet, maybe Arai changed something since then?

how ancient can it be, the profile is a new helmet model since 2005

most people don't ride that cold anyway

[benVFR]

It's almost a year old... if this was quietly reported to Arai they could easily have changed the helmet design silently without us knowing about it.

Not that I would believe mine was one of the updated ones.

Degsy's might be though if he just got it.

[Manny]

Who cares when at looks as good as Degsys does.

[benVFR]

So I've still been searching like crazy for more info on this.

I haven't emailed Snell or Arai yet but I might, the Snell safety directory responded to me before when I asked a question.

The more I read this looks directly related to the fact that the helmet meets the Snell standards.

Snell has a far lower Maximum G limit then Dot. DOT allows 400Gs, Snell is 290G I believe. And SNELL requires the helmet to sustain a much harder hit while transmitting the lower force.

DOT has the "dwell time" requirement, SNELL does not, as they don't think it's meaningful. The dwell time requirement apparently makes it harder to pass Snell, as a softer helmet which will fail Snell will have a shorter dwell time.

I think the gist of the difference is the DOT helmet will allow a much harder hit to your head, but it has to be over more quickly. Snell helmets will not hit your head with as much force, but they may spread the force out over a larger time.

So in otherwords, this helmet could be transmitting over 100G less then another helmet which passes the DOT test, and it will still fail because Arai failed to balance the requirements for both tests. And if you look that is indeed the case with these tests. The helmet fails because it allows 200G for 2.02ms when it should have been under 2.0ms. But the peak Gs transmitted was only 240g, when 400g was allowable. (And we're talking about the second hit!) That's why the other 3 helmets that passed the test were so close to the limit.

As for unrelated trivia...

1) I read that Hayden wears a Profile. Is that true? AFAIK Arai does not sell a Hayden replica Profile, they sell an RX-7 RR Hayden replica. I can't tell from pictures on the web.

2) The ECE & BSI standards allow ever so slightly greater hits then Snell, but nowhere near DOT. They're pretty close to Snell but just different enough that the helmets can be lighter.

3) Anyone else besides Degsy and I have one?

[ahtune69]

Well I just bought a Tommy Gun aria helmet from a place called lithium motorsports for $460.00. It's a med size. I hope it doesn't explode if I do go down. I should grt it in a few days and take a close look at it.

[Punjistick]

Originally posted by ahtune69
Well I just bought a Tommy Gun aria helmet from a place called lithium motorsports for $460.00. It's a med size. I hope it doesn't explode if I do go down. I should grt it in a few days and take a close look at it.

As far as I know the helmet model in question is the Profile. The Tommy Gun is an RX-7 Corsair model.

[FireFly]

I havent Heard anything about ARAI failing anything. I just picked up a quantum. when I was on Arai's sight looking for colors, The only thing I found that resembled a failure was a safety recall on some chinstraps. people have up to a year to get this taken care of for free in case they dont immediately know about the issue. I dont remember finding out specific models or years though. However, 2 of the helmets I was looking at getting ( in the 05 Batch) are No longer on the website.. hmmmmmm who knows

[Degsy]

Originally posted by Punjistick
As far as I know the helmet model in question is the Profile. The Tommy Gun is an RX-7 Corsair model.

Not for $460 it isn't. The Corsairs are a couple of hundred more than that.

derek

[ahtune69]

Originally posted by Degsy
Not for $460 it isn't. The Corsairs are a couple of hundred more than that.

derek

The Tommy Gun helmet that I got from Lithium is the rx-7 corsair according to Rob.

I don't think they made the Tommy Gun graphics in their other models.

[RandyO]

Originally posted by Degsy
Not for $460 it isn't. The Corsairs are a couple of hundred more than that.

derek

My son bought a RX-7 Corsair at Brocton Cycle for $360,(it was a display so tons of peeps prolly tried it on=used helmet imho) a couple months later, when he was in an accident, the insurance company gave him $750 to replace it

but I think Brocton cycle normal price on that helmet is under $500

[RandyO]

Originally posted by FireFly
I havent Heard anything about ARAI failing anything. I just picked up a quantum. when I was on Arai's sight looking for colors, The only thing I found that resembled a failure was a safety recall on some chinstraps. people have up to a year to get this taken care of for free in case they dont immediately know about the issue. I dont remember finding out specific models or years though. However, 2 of the helmets I was looking at getting ( in the 05 Batch) are No longer on the website.. hmmmmmm who knows

read the report in the link of the first post of this thread

not a big deal imho

a randomly purchaced medium size arai profile failed the DOT cold temperature impact test by 2% at around 15°F IIRC

also IIRC this is a test that Snell doesn't even perform

[Degsy]

Wow, that's amazing pricing. i bow to your superior knowledge.

derek

[stevecbr900rr]

If you shop around enough you can get a good deal on helmet's. My girl bought me the RX7 Corsair Wraith in red at SouthShore Motorsport's for Christmas and paid $550.00. We got the pricing from Ebay and Dainna {who works there} said she would give us the same price,... Just tell her the web site you saw it on and they will match it. Or sometimes do better. Good people to deal with in there.

I have even changed my mind on the helmet and they let me cancel the order and order the Aria Vector instead. With no retocking fee and they priced matched that one too.

[Fast_Eddie]

There was an article a while back about the euro standards vs snell and DOT. One of the major points they made was that if you ended up near the upeer G loads that they test for in the US, you would be so severly retarded or brain damaged that you wouldn't want to live anyways. I Don't remember the exact numbers they were throwing around. The examples were something like a 40G impact in a snell/DOT helmet transmitting 38G's to your brain and still being intact for many additional hits while the euro version would only transmit 29G's for the same 40G impact and it needs to fail a bit each time to get rid of the energy from the impact.

[benVFR]

Your numbers are off by a factor of 10.

The gist of it is the doctors & scientists think anything under 300Gs and you won't have a serious brain injury.

Because of that a SNELL/ECE/BSI helmet is willing to transmit over 200Gs to your head in order to protect you from very serious impacts. But the goal is never to exceed 275-290G in a forseeable impact.

The difference in how hard you feel the helmet is will be really really small between a SNELL/ECE/BSI helmet.

A DOT-only helmet could feel softer and leave you with less of a headache in a very mild crash. But if you have a hit that is greater then the DOT impact standards the DOT helmet will fail and you will likely have a brain injury whereas a SNELL/ECE/BSI helmet would have *not* failed.

A hit beyond the capabilities of a SNELL/ECE/BSI helmet is basically the technology limit.

This is basically what the anti-SNELL article in Motorcyclist was about. Their argument is you would get fewer headaches, etc.. in mild crashes if you forgo the extra protection of the better helmets. You just leave yourself open to the risk of a helmet failure in a harder hit. Their assumption is that if a SNELL/ECE/BSI helmet hits you with 150G in a mild crash and a DOT helmet hits you with 100G in a mild crash, the DOT helmet is better. But neither 150G or 100G is likely to cause a brain injury. But in a severe crash the SNELL/ECE/BSI helmet would hit you with less then 300G for no injury whereas the DOT helmet could fail and transmit 1000G or more, which is how you end up with a brain injury.

There is no debate here between SNELL/ECE/BSI helmets. Those standards are very close, as they are all based on current research. Now that I've done more reading I would happily buy an ECE or BSI helmet if I liked one of those helmets.

The only debate is between those helmets and a DOT-only helmet, the DOT standard is 35 years old and does not reflect current research.

The only catch with ECE or BSI helmets is apparently some of them are not DOT because the manufacturer never asked DOT for a certification and never intended to sell them in the US. If you import them from Europe you could be at risk for a ticket. This has nothing to do with them being safe of course. Since SNELL is an American organization those helmets appear to also have DOT designations.

[ahtune69]

Originally posted by RandyO
My son bought a RX-7 Corsair at Brocton Cycle for $360,(it was a display so tons of peeps prolly tried it on=used helmet imho) a couple months later, when he was in an accident, the insurance company gave him $750 to replace it

but I think Brocton cycle normal price on that helmet is under $500

The normal price on the rx-7 corsairs run about $650.00 at Brockton Cycles, well the Tommy Gun did at least. But If you buy the off shelf one's it will be cheaper.