Bill Introduced to Limit Ethanol to 10%

[B440]

I've been reading some stuff inside the internet about blending 20%, 30% and 40% ethanol, which has me wanting to try it out as some of the tests have come up positive in performance/mileage. I would like to see the subsidies disappear though.

[Kurlon]

If they're seeing a gain, it's not from just running a backyard brew with higher ethanol content. By itself that'll further degrade their perf, to get any gains you'll need to up your compression or advance your timing to make up for the slower burn and take advantage of the potential higher knock resistance.

[B440]

Yeah, I'm figuring the results are tainted, or the engines are able to take advantage of it through timing advance. Maybe you can come up with a better conclusion. Here's what I was reading: http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...ve_summary.pdf

[soofle616]

i would like to see actual test results instead of just tabulated summaries before any conclusions can be drawn from that. Also, the presence or absence of an engine fault light is not a good indication that the fuel mix is safe for a given vehicle. Put higher than e10 in your non flex fuel car and watch your warranty disappear along with the fuel system seals.

[markbvt]

Also, the presence or absence of an engine fault light is not a good indication that the fuel mix is safe for a given vehicle. Put higher than e10 in your non flex fuel car and watch your warranty disappear along with the fuel system seals.

Exactly -- just because the engine runs on the stuff in a short-term test doesn't mean the rest of the fuel system will stand up to long-term exposure to high levels of ethanol.

--mark

[timmyho414]

ethanol and any alcohol has less BTU's, it think half, as gasoline. You will automaticly get 50%less fuel mileage.

as Kurlon said, the advantage in power, like alcohol funny cars, comes from a resistance to detonation. You can only take advantage of the with high compression

[soofle616]

ethanol and any alcohol has less BTU's, it think half, as gasoline. You will automaticly get 50%less fuel mileage.

as Kurlon said, the advantage in power, like alcohol funny cars, comes from a resistance to detonation. You can only take advantage of the with high compression

Increasing compression increases the efficiency of an ICE allowing for greater mileage (or performance) from the same amount of fuel. It is therefore theoretically possible that the ability to increase compression thanks to the increased resistance to detonation could improve efficiency enough to compensate for the lower energy content of the fuel. However, I would have to see actual test data, over the long term, before I would be willing to believe that. Then and only then would I consider ethanol as a viable energy source for cars/trucks/bikes but even then it would only be for those vehicles specifically built to take advantage of the fuel with higher compression, advanced timing, etc.

[RandyO]

ethanol and any alcohol has less BTU's, it think half, as gasoline. You will automaticly get 50%less fuel mileage.

as Kurlon said, the advantage in power, like alcohol funny cars, comes from a resistance to detonation. You can only take advantage of the with high compression

70% or approximately 1/3 less, 10% of gas is ethanol, 90% of the fuel has no decrease in BTU

you could loose potentially 3% if your vehicle isn't tuned (flex fuel)

[timmyho414]

70% or approximately 1/3 less, 10% of gas is ethanol, 90% of the fuel has no decrease in BTU

you could loose potentially 3% if your vehicle isn't tuned (flex fuel)

I'm pretty sure car are either E85 or not. There is no middle were the are tuned to run on 10%. They claim it just won't hurt them.

I was referring to if you ran in on pure ethanol not want is at the pump. 616 said he was curious about higher ethanol blends.

Even if you car is flexfuel and okay to run on E85 you will still loose mileage. It has to keep lower enough compression to still run on gasoline. A friend went out west on a road trip and tried it out. He found it did get significantly worse mileage with E85. After he factored in the lower cost of the E85 it came out about even to gas.



I found this article while trying to find more in for to prove my point that simple by BTU, ethanol will not get the fuel mileage of gasoline even in an engine built to run on it. It states test as far back as 1906 that show different.

http://www.americanenergyindependenc...olengines.aspx

this could be a bypassed website, I haven't read up on it completely

[RandyO]

It's real simple, pure Ethanol is a single compound, you can tune precisely to that compound. Gasoline is a blend of several compounds, each of which has different ignition characteristics and you cannot tune to be 100% efficient on all compounds at the same time

fwiw, I like ethanol, I just don't like making it with corn, I believe sugar beets would be more efficient and I think that industrial hemp should be legalized and hemp seed oil should replace diesel

[timmyho414]

are you a chemist or something?

I think we're on the same boat here and I whole hearty agree with this

...I just don't like making it with corn, I believe sugar beets would be more efficient...

after reading around on that website I think I'm likin' methanol.

[SRTie4k]

Ethanol is an excellent fuel if you are into fast cars and tuning, given your fuel system is up to the task of handling it. There are a lot of people making fantastic power on E85 alone by simply increasing timing, but I've also seen a lot of pretty messed up fuel components (i.e. the HPFP in the MS3).

[Falko]

I ran ethanol in a car way back when. Huge fuel lines, big pump, and predator carb with alcohol jets. The stream through that carb looked like your finger when cracked open. At the time you could buy alcohol at the local garage for around 80 cents a gallon. But it was the only place around that sold it so your range with that car was way limited, and getting about 100 miles on a tank of fuel was ridiculous. That set up didn't last long. Then I had to change the heads to drop the compression along with the intake and obviously carb/pump. Big money loss on that experiment. Overall, I like alcohol but mixing with gas, eh. I've read there are some nasty pollutant side reactions as a result of mixing the two. Never dug deep to confirm.