CARB threat to civilization

[bigred875]

Originally posted by TheIglu
The money you will save on gas alone will more than pay for 3 sets of batteries every 100,000 miles.

sure...and once the price on these vehicles drop to a reasonable level there will be little reason not to buy a hybrid..

it is still to new...i bet in 5 years they will be a lot better and the prices will not be as high...andn I suspect a lot of bugs will be worked out by then..

[Stoneman]

Ya know something? Fuck 'em ALL! Drill for erl, cut & burn trees, shoot the whales, and eat meat...

HA!

[richw]

psst I am more rational then my gingoistic (sp) prose.

CARB is putting through a 1/3 reduction in "Green House Gases" that is CO2 and it is an attempt to override Federal CAFE standards.

Our local unconscious legislatures have in the past embraced the California left coast standards so we will suffer along with the "fruits and nuts".

My point that I never see picked up on is that over the last 35 years these Governmental Agencies has become populated with Environmental Extremists with their own peronal agenda to save mother earth "cost be damned". They now have the power to "interpret" laws in the most harsh way and a cadre of Government lawyers to defend them.

Look deep within your soles and answer the question. If these Government "employees" had to choose between saving an "Old Hairy White Guy" and a litter of wolf cubs what do you think they would do ?

[highsider]

Originally posted by richw
psst I am more rational then my gingoistic (sp) prose.

CARB is putting through a 1/3 reduction in "Green House Gases" that is CO2 and it is an attempt to override Federal CAFE standards.

Glad to hear that What is the problem, exactly, with reducing greenhouse gasses? Do you need them to breathe? And does the constitution not allow states to make their own laws which offer more protection than those of the federal government?

Our local unconscious legislatures have in the past embraced the California left coast standards so we will suffer along with the "fruits and nuts".

Exactly what are you "suffering" from if the auto manufacturer have to reduce emissions?

My point that I never see picked up on is that over the last 35 years these Governmental Agencies has become populated with Environmental Extremists with their own peronal agenda to save mother earth "cost be damned". They now have the power to "interpret" laws in the most harsh way and a cadre of Government lawyers to defend them.

Exactly what constitutes an "environmental extremist"? Someone who advocates automakers spending money to create automobiles that get higher fuel mileage? Exactly what laws are being interpreted "harshly"?

Look deep within your soles and answer the question. If these Government "employees" had to choose between saving an "Old Hairy White Guy" and a litter of wolf cubs what do you think they would do ?

I tried looking in my sole, but when I took my shoe off, my co-workers got mad at me And what the hell does your question aboutthe wolf cubs have to do with "CARB Threat to Civilization"???

[richw]

I guess we have orbitted back to the most basic notion of our government.

We are a republic an each individual has the right and freedom to do what they want unless (sticky point liberals drive your campaign bus through) it directly effects another citizens right to excercise their freedoms.

If you and I assume you do of this forum, consume energy to amuse yourself (ride bikes) then what is more wasteful then riding around for the sake of riding around. I embrace and kiss your cheeks that you live were some government pin head who never had a real job can stop you from doing this.

If you want to buy a hybrid car God bless. If I commuted 50 miles I would think it was a wonderful thing and probably buy one. I however need a full size van for my business and low though it only get 13 to 17 mpgs I am un apologetic.


Hold your head up high and yell that you are a motorcyclist and consume petroleum for your personal amusement or be a hypocrit.

[highsider]

Originally posted by richw
I guess we have orbitted back to the most basic notion of our government.

We are a republic an each individual has the right and freedom to do what they want unless (sticky point liberals drive your campaign bus through) it directly effects another citizens right to excercise their freedoms.

We aren't a republic, were are a federalist government. Columbia is a a republic. And why does it always have to be about liberal v. conservative?

If you and I assume you do of this forum, consume energy to amuse yourself (ride bikes) then what is more wasteful then riding around for the sake of riding around. I embrace and kiss your cheeks that you live were some government pin head who never had a real job can stop you from doing this.

Of course I ride a bike, often for commuting purposes. It gets about 45 MPG or better. And I've NEVER had ANY "government pin head" try to stop me. Please dont kiss my cheeks, we just met.

If you want to buy a hybrid car God bless. If I commuted 50 miles I would think it was a wonderful thing and probably buy one. I however need a full size van for my business and low though it only get 13 to 17 mpgs I am un apologetic.

I'd buy a hybrid like the new Accord, because it is very practical, faster than the normal Accord, and is better for the environment. On the other hand, I also drive a Ford powerstroke diesel that gets about 17 MPG with the mods I have - my point is, if I CAN do something to produce less emissions, I do.

Hold your head up high and yell that you are a motorcyclist and consume petroleum for your personal amusement or be a hypocrit.

I am a hypocrit because I think that I should try to use as little fuel and produce as little emissions as possible?

I really dont understand your point. You said that CARB was a threat to civilization, and yet have provided no proof whatsoever to that effect. So, here's my question - what EXACTLY is the threat to civilization, about a law that requires auto manufacturers to produce cars that produce less emissions?

[TheIglu]

My bike gets nearly double what my truck gets in MPG.

It also has a catalitic converter.

Really responsible way of putting it. "Screw everyone else, I like my cars to suck gas without needing them to".

I really do hope gas prices hit $5.00 a gallon in the next ten years. Then people like you will be the first to look for government aid.

Government pinheads that have never had a real job?

Must be quite a job protecting the world from people that think like you do.

[benVFR]

Originally posted by richw
CARB is putting through a 1/3 reduction in "Green House Gases" that is CO2 and it is an attempt to override Federal CAFE standards.

Please show us where you found this.. it is not on the CARB website.. there are no new press releases, etc..

I don't know what you are worried about... a hybrid truck or SUV will get you your 1/3rd reduction in CO2 and by the time the standard is in place it will probably have just as much power & torque as your current vehicle..

You sure seem worried for nothing... remember the electric motors in hybrids are capable of giving a vehicle monster low end torque.. it is not going to ruin anyone's day. E.x. The prius has 300ft-lbs of electric torque at 0-1200rpm... and that is for an economy car application.

[TheIglu]

And they are coming out with the Prius GT soon that will put out MUCH more torque and about 190hp.....

[richw]

1/3 co2 reduction was an NPR radio article that the Auto Companies are suing California because CARB is using the reduced co2 as a cover to raise CAFE standards. The new rules to come in I think in 2009.

There is a write up in the FRESNOBEE "Valley auto dealers sue C.A.R.B. "and I am not surprised that the CARB website doesn't cover this.

Why are my panties in a bunch. Incrementalism...
1st put in a rule that sounds like motherhood and get the population to accept that you have control in that area.
Wait 10 years
2nd Tweak the rule a little which is just a small "incremental" step and this will get the afformentioned desired effect.
wait 7 to 10 years
3rd Tweak it just an additional incremental step "We are almost there"
Wait 7 to 10 years when there is an entire new generation that excepts the government's power in this area.
4th Do anything you want.

"I pledge my allegance to the flag of the United States and to the "Republic" for which it stands"

Once you accept that the government has the power to contol your co2 emissions you are given them the power to control your energy use and then how or for what you are using energy. Is recreational motorcycle use a "Government Approved Green House Gas Emitting Activity"

I had hope you had shaved particularly close today

[ancosta]

An alternate method of addressing the situation would be for people to become more socially responsible.

That could be passing up the chance to buy a gas guzzling SUV, but it could also be as simple as just driving less.

If public transportation was better, e.g. what they have in Europe, people would drive less.

The best part of this is that we can start doing this today, without any advances in cars, etc. It can also happen concurrent to improvments in technology.

Maybe its too idelogical...?

[benVFR]

Your only hope is to move to Montana and buy LOTS of guns.

You are worried about nothing.

They are not going to come after motorcycles anytime soon. News flash! Motorcycles use the smallest engine and therefore produce the least CO2. In their current form they emit higher levels of other pollutants but those can be fixed as FI and Cats get better...

If anything higher oil costs and stricter pollution standards will HELP motorcycles as they are naturally fuel efficient. More and more people will have to use motorcycles as legitimate practical vehicles if oil prices rise. This will cause the manufacturers to ship more and more of those interesting models that we don't get over to the US.

Please visit a country with no pollution controls. Cough up some black shit and then come back and still tell us CARB, CAFE, etc.. are bad.

[benVFR]

I'm always going to have a hard time believing people will ever be socially responsible.

These people who scream that they want the government to get out of their lives and they will regulate themselves are the exact same people who would then proceed to buy the biggest vehicle they can, dump their toxic waste in the river, etc.. it is all short term thinking. "What can I do that gets ME the biggest short term gain." They don't care about anyone else, and they don't care about their own children or grandchildren.

A self policing state where personal responsibility makes everything work is a utopian fantasy in our current society and culture.

[highsider]

Originally posted by richw

Why are my panties in a bunch. Incrementalism...
1st put in a rule that sounds like motherhood and get the population to accept that you have control in that area.
Wait 10 years
2nd Tweak the rule a little which is just a small "incremental" step and this will get the afformentioned desired effect.
wait 7 to 10 years
3rd Tweak it just an additional incremental step "We are almost there"
Wait 7 to 10 years when there is an entire new generation that excepts the government's power in this area.
4th Do anything you want.

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You sir, are out of your mind. That is the most irrational thought pattern I have ever read.

"I pledge my allegance to the flag of the United States and to the "Republic" for which it stands"

Thats an interesting observation. However, its wrong. The Unites States is not a Republic. It just isn't. I dont know why they say that.

Once you accept that the government has the power to contol your co2 emissions you are given them the power to control your energy use and then how or for what you are using energy. Is recreational motorcycle use a "Government Approved Green House Gas Emitting Activity"

I had hope you had shaved particularly close today

Regulating CO2 emissions doesn't HAVE to be the government controlling energy - thats the point. Further, the government isn't approving/disapproving of ANYTHING other than automobiles that ruin the environment.

Now richw, you actually seem like a nice guy, so I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore. All I can say is that I think you're getting awfully worked up over something that is really minor.

Also, I am going to sneak up on your full size van and put a HUGE Greenpeace sticker on it.......

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by richw
1/3 co2 reduction was an NPR radio article that the Auto Companies are suing California because CARB is using the reduced co2 as a cover to raise CAFE standards. The new rules to come in I think in 2009.

There is a write up in the FRESNOBEE "Valley auto dealers sue C.A.R.B. "and I am not surprised that the CARB website doesn't cover this.

Why are my panties in a bunch. Incrementalism...
1st put in a rule that sounds like motherhood and get the population to accept that you have control in that area.
Wait 10 years
2nd Tweak the rule a little which is just a small "incremental" step and this will get the afformentioned desired effect.
wait 7 to 10 years
3rd Tweak it just an additional incremental step "We are almost there"
Wait 7 to 10 years when there is an entire new generation that excepts the government's power in this area.


4th Do anything you want.

"I pledge my allegance to the flag of the United States and to the "Republic" for which it stands"

Once you accept that the government has the power to contol your co2 emissions you are given them the power to control your energy use and then how or for what you are using energy. Is recreational motorcycle use a "Government Approved Green House Gas Emitting Activity"

I had hope you had shaved particularly close today

You just don't get it, do you. It is NOT about the government wanting to sterilize you, keep you from looking at porn, keep you from drinking beer, keep you from driving around.

It is about making the world we live in last as long as we do. I could understand if you were moving to the Moon or Mars soon. For the rest of us that are going to be living on THIS planet, I don't want to have a weather advisory about smog like Los Angeles does.

[CheshireNinja]

Originally posted by TheIglu
The money you will save on gas alone will more than pay for 3 sets of batteries every 100,000 miles.

And you can usually find the batteries on Ebay as parts from totaled vehicles. The batteries are next to the trunk, so they don't usually get damaged in an accident.

[ancosta]

Originally posted by benVFR
I'm always going to have a hard time believing people will ever be socially responsible.

That's why I think I am being too idelogical in my thinking people will regulate themselves.

What if there were more incentives to be responsible, e.g. tax credits for people who use public transportation, purchase vehicles that meet low-emissions/high MPG standards, companies who invest in carpooling and shuttling of employees, etc.

If you don't want to particpate, fine. If you want to get tax benefits, fine likewise.

If only such programs could exist without heaps of red tape and fraud, it could work!

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
Thats an interesting observation. However, its wrong. The Unites States is not a Republic. It just isn't. I dont know why they say that.

HAHAHAHA.. sorry to jump back in..but that is funny...

I'm convinced..lmao!!!!

[SEVENSGT]

Originally posted by CheshireNinja
And you can usually find the batteries on Ebay as parts from totaled vehicles. The batteries are next to the trunk, so they don't usually get damaged in an accident.

But htink about this, and I know I sound like a nut(i'm really not but), lets say 10% of americans buy these hybirds, and every four years they need to replace the batts, that is 30 million batts every four years... isn't that a bit much???

[TheIglu]

Not compared to amount of fuel being used by everyone each year.

Besides, these batteries can be completely recycled. They are not lead/acid batteries any longer.

[SEVENSGT]

Originally posted by TheIglu
Besides, these batteries can be completely recycled.

that's good cuase there will be a lot of people out of work when we don't use gas anymore...



Another thing, I have a hard enough time remebering to plug in my phone at nite, never mind my car

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
HAHAHAHA.. sorry to jump back in..but that is funny...

I'm convinced..lmao!!!!

MMMMMM!!!!! This crow sure is TASTY!!!!!!

http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html


Turns out federalism falls under the definition of a republic, which = highsider is a douchebag.

[highsider]

Originally posted by SEVENSGT
that's good cuase there will be a lot of people out of work when we don't use gas anymore...

That actually scares me nearly as much as the collapse of our environment - if we were to wean ourselves off from petroleum too quickly, there would be a HUGE economic collapse right along with it.......

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
MMMMMM!!!!! This crow sure is TASTY!!!!!!

http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html


Turns out federalism falls under the definition of a republic, which = highsider is a douchebag.

lol..I didnt care either way..haha I was justr amused by the... The Unites States is not a Republic. It just isn't. I dont know why they say that...

lol..ok carry on.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by highsider
That actually scares me nearly as much as the collapse of our environment - if we were to wean ourselves off from petroleum too quickly, there would be a HUGE economic collapse right along with it.......

I'd rather have people out of work then not be able to open my windows during the summer.

Just so you aren't confused, hybrids still require fuel, just a lot less.

There is no need to plug them in.

If hydrogen was used, all the gas stations would go out of business.

And new (hydrogen) gas stations would open. There is your jobs.....