Good Dyno Guys

[loridin64]

wheres a good place to go? i think i want a new map for my PC3r, plus i'd like to some numbers.
i know Naults does it for an hour of labor...

[Kurlon]

If they charge an hour's labor for a full map on a PC3, do it! : ) Then watch to make sure they're doing a full map, as I can't see how they can do it in under an hour, including putting the bike on the dyno, baseline, map, final run, with cool downs inserted as needed.

[DucDave]

Seacoast seems fair...call Charles and ask him....

[finao]

John, Dyno Solutions in Danbury CT is a straight shooter, I know it is far and it does take him several hours.

His shop is right next to a nice dealer with BMW, Ducati's, MV's, Bi Moto lots of exotics.

[butcher bergs]

From my understanding, Nault's only flips dyno runs....more of like an HP measurment rather than a true re-map.

I assume they "massage" a given map and send it.

Whatever you do, make sure your chosen dyno tuner uses an infra-red type EG tuner and nothing else.

The other types of devices (like the muffler probe, for example) are just not accurate enough for getting proper readings and results from changes made.

[akira700]

I got a PC 3 map done at Seacoast. The mapped sucked.
The premade jardine map was better.
I just reloaded that. They never answered any of my emails
about it after I rode home. After that I made an average of
the custom they made and the jardine download map
in excel and that came out just right.

Dont think they took into account for the cat converter
and the PAIR valve...
the mix was too lean across the board.
If you go there... make sure you like the results before
you ride away.

[Jim]

After that I made an average of
the custom they made and the jardine download map
in excel and that came out just right.

Akira, i might be thinking of doing this also for my bike. would you be able to explain how you made yours? my exhaust was made for the 05-06 GSXR 1000's, so my exhaust wont be an option on DynoJet's website for the 02 GSXR 600

[silverbullet03]

Me and a bunch of other guys i ride with had Rob from Rob's Dyno service come out to a buddies shop to tune our bikes. We had 5 bikes in total and he charged $225 a person for custom map's. This may seem expensive, but he tows the Dyno to were ever you want!

[akira700]

Akira, i might be thinking of doing this also for my bike. would you be able to explain how you made yours? my exhaust was made for the 05-06 GSXR 1000's, so my exhaust wont be an option on DynoJet's website for the 02 GSXR 600

Not to sidetrack this thread but... the reason I averaged the two maps
was that one map was rich... and one map was lean... and both seemed that way across the whole rev range. So what I did was to load both maps
into Excel. The Dynojet software lets you export the map into
spreadsheet format. The Excel has a function that will subtract one table from the other. Then you load in the resulting map and ride... like magic !

Warning note: fucking around with maps too much... + here - there... if you dont do it right can make your Fuel mix get pretty fucked up so beware.
best to pay the money and get it done right... I didnt have such luck. But my bike runs great now.

Not sure what you have so I dont know how doing this might work for you.
PM if you have more questions.

[butcher bergs]

Warning note: fucking around with maps too much... + here - there... if you dont do it right can make your Fuel mix get pretty fucked up so beware.

Even beyond that you can grenade your motor pretty easily if you don't pay attention to what you're doing....Too lean and KAPOW! Too rich and...you guessed it....KAPOW!

[Kurlon]

From my understanding, Nault's only flips dyno runs....more of like an HP measurment rather than a true re-map.

I assume they "massage" a given map and send it.

Whatever you do, make sure your chosen dyno tuner uses an infra-red type EG tuner and nothing else.

The other types of devices (like the muffler probe, for example) are just not accurate enough for getting proper readings and results from changes made.

If you do the mapping using a Dynojet with Dynojet's O2 sensor (muffler probe) and take the time to review the mix readout each time you do a continuous pull, you'll see when you need to make an extra pass or two to get it dialed in. If you just do one pass and move on to the next set of bins, yeah, you'll be off, an an IR based probe won't save you.

Got me curious now though, I wonder if Dynojet has a 5 gas module for WinPep now?

[ryanp77]

I had my bike done from Robs Dyno Service at the reacetrack last year and he did an awsome job. I was having a problem with the idle and he remapped 1rst hrough 3rd and tweaked the other three gears and it was like a different bike altogther once I got n it and rode it.

[butcher bergs]

If you just do one pass and move on to the next set of bins, yeah, you'll be off, an an IR based probe won't save you.

How do you figure? An IR probe is not affected by EGT whereas the O2 type is and can give, in essence, false readouts.

The IR will give you accurate results regardless of temps, humidity, altitude....all these things that can and do affect the O2 type probes.

I can certainly back these statements up if you'd like.

The O2 muffler probe is not good for much of anything other than saving a tuning shop a few bucks in the cost of tuning equipment.

IR tuning is the only way to effectively tune an engine.

Yes, the O2 probe will get you pretty close, but at the end of the day, IR will yield better tuning results with more accuracy regardless of the conditions.

[reiobard]

I was under the impression that RJ's was a good shop for dyno tuning, and they are a sponsor of Motorcycle night in lowell.

[DucDave]

How do you figure? An IR probe is not affected by EGT whereas the O2 type is and can give, in essence, false readouts.

The IR will give you accurate results regardless of temps, humidity, altitude....all these things that can and do affect the O2 type probes.

I can certainly back these statements up if you'd like.

The O2 muffler probe is not good for much of anything other than saving a tuning shop a few bucks in the cost of tuning equipment.

IR tuning is the only way to effectively tune an engine.

Yes, the O2 probe will get you pretty close, but at the end of the day, IR will yield better tuning results with more accuracy regardless of the conditions.

oh boy....

a 'religious' war between techies is almost as much fun as a cat fight between milfs....

i dont understand either but they can sure be entertaining...

do me a favor...save this for Sunday night at VIR where we can watch in person..!!!!

[roadracer685]

Bring it to harrys machine in northboro and leave it up to the pros.

[GixerJockey]

Only charging for an hours worth of labor? It doesn't sound like you're going to get much by the way of a complete mapping process. I just spent 4 hours on the dyno that past Sunday. It took 1/2 hour to strap the bike down, take the tail apart to access my PCIII and timing controller, and set the dyno up. That only leaves another 1/2 hour... It's impossible to get a couple of base line pulls done and even get into the first round of programming in that amount of time.

[loridin64]

wheres RJ's located? Are they ones the bring the "Dyno Trailer"?

[Nix]

Good thread gang. I need to get this done this season, too. Wondering if Rob's Dyno will cut a deal if he gets a few signed up for a day? Maybe that's not a good idea since it looks like some of you had to spend 3-4 hours doing it for one bike?

[Kurlon]

How do you figure? An IR probe is not affected by EGT whereas the O2 type is and can give, in essence, false readouts.

The IR will give you accurate results regardless of temps, humidity, altitude....all these things that can and do affect the O2 type probes.

I can certainly back these statements up if you'd like.

The O2 muffler probe is not good for much of anything other than saving a tuning shop a few bucks in the cost of tuning equipment.

IR tuning is the only way to effectively tune an engine.

Yes, the O2 probe will get you pretty close, but at the end of the day, IR will yield better tuning results with more accuracy regardless of the conditions.

If you're using Dynojet's hardware and software stack, you're going to be using their O2 sensor. They have enviromental sensors to apply corrections for ambient air temp, air pressure, etc. As far as EGT itself, you have to be way outside normal operating range to really screw up an O2 sensor's reading. Like, damage to the bike has already occured outside of normal range temps.

The response characteristics of O2 sensors are very well known and documented. If they were truely that flakely, they'd never be able to hold a car's emissions output in check (CARB) and we'd have IR setups in place. Plus, with a 5 wire O2 sensor as used by Dynojet... you can deduce EGT as a sanity check based on the heater circuit. Dunno if Dynojet does so, but the technique has been proven out on other setups.

Not to mention, trying to build a map based on a 3rd party exhaust gas analyzer is going to take forever, as you do a pull at X throttle setting, read the EGA's output, guess an adjustment, input into each bin, repeat. If you run Dynojet's full stack, you do a rolling pull for X throttle setting, and look at the reported Air/Fuel ratio graph across the run. Repeat the pulls till it levels out as the powercommander is dialed in by the software, move to the next set of bins. Easy cheasy. In the time it'd take to do one cycle using the 3rd party EGA, you could likely dial in 2 or 3 bins via Dynojet's stack.

Now, if you want to run a separate EGA at the same time as a sanity check, great idea. But to try and claim O2 sensors are completely unusable is a fallacy.

Oh, and just to save time...

NERD ALERT

[loridin64]

Good thread gang. I need to get this done this season, too. Wondering if Rob's Dyno will cut a deal if he gets a few signed up for a day? Maybe that's not a good idea since it looks like some of you had to spend 3-4 hours doing it for one bike?

not a bad idea. a group discount at one of these places would be great. Maybe make a couple days out of it

[butcher bergs]

Now, if you want to run a separate EGA at the same time as a sanity check, great idea. But to try and claim O2 sensors are completely unusable is a fallacy.

Never said "completely".....just nowhere near as good as.

Lemme see if I can find the comparison write up I was reading a while back...

[usetobefast]

RJ's motorsport/rpmdyno tuning tuned both my gsxr and zx14 after nault's had "custom mapped" What a difference when someONE takes thier time to do it right.They are also a sponcer of MOTORCYCLE NIGHT.
I was charged $150 for custom map They also set up my zx with a quuick shift kit
and 2 maps stored in hub 1 for street and 1 for track

[The Crashing Tomato]

anyone in the greater worcester area??? Great service from a knowledgable guy @ Out of Control Racing. He has fixed too many unhappy Robs traveling dyno customers bikes over the last year he has had his own dyno at his shop @ the summit in worcester. no he can't travel but he's worth the money and btw... the guy at OCR learned from Harry's and Harry's is also very respected for MC / PCIII tuning

A truely custom map takes 4-5 hours with set up and breakdown. check the price sheet from these other places as they may have additional fees for set up and breakdown. My CBR was pulled 27 times on my custom map and yes he uses anal probe for ega from dynojet. he explained that the dynojet O2 sensor needs to be right up near the header collector to get the best results, and that it does an o.k. job by anal probing. best case drill some ports in the exhaust near the collector and plug them after the tuning session

besides Dynojet has been doing engine tuning for _**_years, how could they stay in business if the anal O2 probe wasn't that effective of an EGA it's all about the placement not the penetration

[Nix]

anyone in the greater worcester area??? Great service from a knowledgable guy @ Out of Control Racing. He has fixed too many unhappy Robs traveling dyno customers bikes over the last year he has had his own dyno at his shop @ the summit in worcester. no he can't travel but he's worth the money and btw... the guy at OCR learned from Harry's and Harry's is also very respected for MC / PCIII tuning

A truely custom map takes 4-5 hours with set up and breakdown. check the price sheet from these other places as they may have additional fees for set up and breakdown. My CBR was pulled 27 times on my custom map and yes he uses anal probe for ega from dynojet. he explained that the dynojet O2 sensor needs to be right up near the header collector to get the best results, and that it does an o.k. job by anal probing. best case drill some ports in the exhaust near the collector and plug them after the tuning session

besides Dynojet has been doing engine tuning for _**_years, how could they stay in business if the anal O2 probe wasn't that effective of an EGA it's all about the placement not the penetration

All this talk about drilling, penetration, and anal probes sounds just tho thuper!!



Seriously though, thanks for the post/heads up - Woosta isn't too too far from me. This is all good info. - when I get this done, I want to get it done once and be done with it.