Track vs. Street Speeds

[benVFR]

This is all hypothetical but I got into a discussion with someone who tours a TON.(higher miles/yr than RandyO even)

He really , really seems to think he is incredibly fast. He has done track days but not races, and he is both out of shape and has a bum leg so he can't hang off very well. I don't think his bike has stiff enough springs to support his weight either.

I mentioned that to me race speeds look like they are at least 3x what a yellow sign on the street would indicate for a turn. He thought this was ridiculous, how could a racer be that much faster than him, he drags his pegs (on a VFR) at 2x the speed limit.

Specifically a place like Deal's Gap, Cherahola Skyway, Blue Ridge Parkway, Shenendoah Skyline Drive, etc..

If there was a TT similar to Isle of Man on some of those roads, how fast would Rossi or someone go through? I'm really under the impression that the sweepers on that road can be taken at a higher speed than anything on any racetrack in the world.

I'm talking about the limits of a racebike and world class rider, not what is smart or sane or possible by us. I have no trouble believing those guys are are so much faster than me.

So do you think if a turn on the Skyway is marked 35mph in yellow that someone like Rossi could do it at 110mph or more?

Ben

[beet]

Rossi can ride & hold more speed then he could even think of
the track time he gets pratice bicycle riding mm rides his bicycle
300 miles a week can he do that

[Stoneman]

Tell him to do a track day. Better yet, tell him to take the Penguin school. Once he gets his completion card, he can do open testing on Thursdays...

[RSVMILLE661]

My equasion for riding fast on the street is Speed limit X 2 + 10 MPH. that still leaves a bit of room for error.. My speeds on the track (and I'm a slow guy) are probably 4 times faster than any corner I have taken on the street.

[GMAN226]

I agree.... I cannot see riding any where close to race speed on the street.. That guy is full of it..

G-man

[shaggy]

So the only thing this guy is basing his speed is by his peg scrapping/ Doesn't he know that if he hangs off the bike he won't scrape? Sounds like he's full of himself.

[Collision pro]

Originally posted by gsxr600ger
I agree.... I cannot see riding any where close to race speed on the street.. That guy is full of it..

G-man

I think you can go faster on the street because it is not as technical as the track. Thats why people who think they are fast go to the track and crash!

[RandyO]

I don't consider my riding particularly fast, but double the posted speeds on an engineered road like the skyway is nothing but a leisurely one handed cruise

[Kham]

Originally posted by Collision pro
I think you can go faster on the street because it is not as technical as the track. Thats why people who think they are fast go to the track and crash!

huh? this doesn't make sense.

[RandyO]

Originally posted by Collision pro
I think you can go faster on the street because it is not as technical as the track. Thats why people who think they are fast go to the track and crash!

that depends on what street and what track...

[GMAN226]

Originally posted by Collision pro
I think you can go faster on the street because it is not as technical as the track. Thats why people who think they are fast go to the track and crash!

Top speed no doupt faster on the street.. Relative corner speed is faster on the track.. I wouln't take a corner like turn 3 on the street nearly as fast as I would on the track.... That is just my opinion.. Mike you have ridden with me on the street I don't go that slow..

G-man

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by Kham
huh? this doesn't make sense.

That's why he put the bullshit flag up.

Unless this guy has been super-pissed about not getting home .00128 seconds faster than he did last week, he has no idea what is splooging forth out his pie hole!

I bet the majority of the racers here could pass him through a corner so fast he would get mad because it freightend him so much.

Yes, the pros could navigate through so fast, whew!

I wish we had a street course in the us.

[Degsy]

I know I have taken cloverleaf off/on ramps at 80mph or so, posted is usually what, 35? So I guess that is 2X plus 10mph roughly.
derek

[Collision pro]

Originally posted by Kham
huh? this doesn't make sense.

What I am saying is: you can go faster on the street because, roads are not made to be technical. They are made so you can drive on them. Tracks are made technical so it adds a challenge. You have to learn how to ride a track fast!

Gerard that why I said!!!!

[trackdog]

You've nailed right on the head Collision pro. Engineers don't design a road to be challenging, they design them to get you thru as safely as possible....and on on a bike,...well you can go much faster than posted speeds. I've seen off-ramps posted as 25mph...has anyone tried to go 25mph on an off-ramp!

[Kham]

Originally posted by Collision pro
What I am saying is: you can go faster on the street because, roads are not made to be technical. They are made so you can drive on them. Tracks are made technical so it adds a challenge. You have to learn how to ride a track fast!

Gerard that why I said!!!!

oh!

so in other words if you could do 3x on track you could pretty much do 3x safely on street given certain corners is dry and smooth?

edit: i think i misuderstood you. you're talking about roads in general and i was asking about on/off ramps.

[GMS1000]

but, try to imagine NHIS with guardrails, driveways, curbs, cars, sand and trees.

I'm pretty sure that Scotty Greenwood's lap times would be a little slower.

If the Isle of Man was raced on the same exact course, but in place of all the dangerous obstacles there was just grass and sand traps. I'm sure even David Jeffries (RIP), would have gone quicker.

[Collision pro]

Originally posted by GMS1000
but, try to imagine NHIS with guardrails, driveways, curbs, cars, sand and trees.

I'm pretty sure that Scotty Greenwood's lap times would be a little slower.

If the Isle of Man was raced on the same exact course, but in place of all the dangerous obstacles there was just grass and sand traps. I'm sure even David Jeffries (RIP), would have gone quicker.

Why imagine NHIS has all that! J/K I know what you mean.

[Kip]

I all comes down to how big your BALLS are!!!!!! The difference is if you screw up and crash on a road you have the chance of a car driving over you and crushing you like a Ant. On the track you only have to worry about another bike or two running over you and breaking some bones or your neck.

I bet this will make you think twice about riding at all.

[Kham]

hmm ok

so w/ same bike and some more BIG BALLS if you ride well on the track (very technical compare to street and less obstacles) you could ride just as fast on street (less technical but lots of deadly obstacles).

correct?

and so vice-versa?


Ben, sorry to hijack your thread.

[Collision pro]

Originally posted by Kham
hmm ok

so w/ same bike and some more BIG BALLS if you ride well on the track (very technical compare to street and less obstacles) you could ride just as fast on street (less technical but lots of deadly obstacles).

correct?

and so vice-versa?


Ben, sorry to hijack your thread.

Just come do a trackday and you will see! It is easier to ride without thinking a car or something like that is going to get you!

[zombie]

These threads are somwhat redundant as the guy who thinks he is real fast on the street compared to racers on the track is a disaster waiting to happen.
I don't want to be even in the same county as that fool . Now I'm not the slowest guy on the street nor am I the fastest but there is no comparison between the street and the track.
I realized how slow I actually was when I tried to follow degsy on a track day and laughed as he disappeared into the distance.

On the street I tend to think of my riding style as quick as compared to fast and the difference is I take it easy on the straights and will cruise at 70 or so and then wick it up in the twisties and absolutely go real slow thru towns and congested areas.
For me it makes for a somewhat predicatable and comfortable ride
and every time I go out for a long ride I remind myself that my goal is to get up for work on monday morning in one piece and that tends to keep things in perspective

[KevinB]

Mick

I agree 100%. After doing a trackday, you come back to reality and figure out your not the next Rossi. Just cause someone owns a fast bike doesn't make them a fast rider. I pass alot riders on liter bikes, and I'm not even running close to race pace.

[RSVMILLE661]

It is pretty damn near impossible to go as fast on the street as it is on the track just due to the fact that on the street you are covering 12' of pavement from stripe to stripe. unless you are crossing over and then it is 24' of asphalt.

The track on the other hand is 40' and for those of us who race on the track, that 40' can seem pretty damn narrow at times. Now if this guy is as experienced as he claims I can assure you he is not stupid enough to cross over the centerline to scrape a peg into on coming traffic.

The illusion of going fast on the street is made greater due to the smaller room for error. Its a relative equasion. The actual cornering speed is lower but the risk itself may be just as great. But to get to the underlying question. Track cornering speeds are much higher than those of street cornering speeds.