Looking for advice on Moto Business Venture.

[Doc]

Well not really a "Business".

Here is the deal.

I may be able to get a 1600 square foot shop with a small retail area CHEAP.

Basically I was thinking of using it as a "Private Club House" type area. "Members" pay a monthly fee and can use the facilities to store their bikes and work on them, hang out etc. I figure this would be great for the winter, not so sure about the summer.

It might also serve as small used bike/ retail space.

I am looking for advice. What do you think? Good Idea or Bad? Help me flesh this thing out by asking me questions and what if's that I might not be thinking about.

[Doc]

Bueller?

[noxin]

Would it be invite only? Criteria for permitting someone to join the "club"?
Would you divide the area into stalls for the individual renters?
Would there be adequate safe storage for tools, parts, and misc other stuff?
Would there be internet access for research/collaboration purposes?
Would there be a keycard system (this makes it really easy to disable someone's access to the space) to the space and the stall if done that way?
Would there be any Tax Implications for you, since you are essentially sub-leasing out the workshop space?

Ideally, the retail space and the workshop space would be separate. You don't want to present the opportunity for someone to be dishonest.

Depending on provided space (for me and bike(s) ), I'd probably consider it if it was 50-100/month, 24x7 access, and local to me

One thing you may want to consider is a per-day/week/month rental spot that if someone wants someplace to work on their bike for a one-off project, it's there. (Charge higher rates )

[noxin]

There's an office space movement called CoWorking http://coworking.pbworks.com/ that may provide some good resources in this area as you are basically doing the same thing, but with garage space instead of desks.

[Doc]

It would be a selective membership process for various reasons but not exclusive.
No stalls. Open bay type area.
Might do community tools where you sign them out type deal. Store your own in locked boxes.
Could do internet access for an additional fee in the future.
No Key card. Might only be able to do certain hours for working on bikes (not everyone will have a key) and by appointment for off hours.
No Tax implications that I am aware of. It would be more of a Hobby Shop/ Club has rather than a business. WE would be leasing the space as a cooperative.

Yes the "retail" and workshop would be seperate. Seperate locked areas.

I need to do some measuring as far as space per person and work on the 24/7 access. I did some searching and a storage facility (5x5) is about $50 a month and I feel my venture would be more moto friendly (and climate controlled)

Good idea with the shorter term rental space. I hadn't thought of that. Thank Noxin! Great questions!

[richw]

Form an LLC and have evryone sign wavers

They pay dues you don't collect fees.

Or you can run an LLC at a loss for 3 years taking losses off your taxes

Buy a cheap tire changer and balancer then everybody wins

[Doc]

Just to be clear.

This won't be a money making venture and it may only be short term. Let's call it dipping my toe into the business arena for a future venture.

LLC is an idea. I will look into that. Thanks Rich.

[Doc]

Anyone else?

[highsider]

Dont make your hobby a business. It fucks up your hobby and usually makes for bad business.

Also, you'll find out who your friends really are. They'll be the ones who dont stiff you and leave the place a mess. You will have less friends than you think.

I did a similar thing once. I ended up turning the shop into a horse barn. Smartest thing I ever did.

Just my two cents.

[Doc]

Dont make your hobby a business. It fucks up your hobby and usually makes for bad business.

Also, you'll find out who your friends really are. They'll be the ones who dont stiff you and leave the place a mess. You will have less friends than you think.

I did a similar thing once. I ended up turning the shop into a horse barn. Smartest thing I ever did.

Just my two cents.

Thanks Chris. You and I should talk a little about this.

[Doc]

Might be something like this but I was thinking more of a cooperative or "Club"

http://www.motorgrrl.com/

[noxin]

Doc,
If you head to Brooklyn to check out that place, let me know, I'd be interested in seeing it as well.

[seth399]

strippers

[Doc]

strippers

Definately! Pole goes in day one!

[seth399]

Definately! Pole goes in day one!

[schleppy]

Insurance is going to make it difficult and expensive. Having tried to start a business before, that was the number one cost, and ultimate killer. Anything relating to cars/bikes usually has hefty insurance costs associated with it. That's why most car/bike shops won't let customers into the work area, insuring for the inevitable uh-oh costs a lot.

Forming and LLC and having people sign waivers can only get you so far. Most good lawyers can punch right through those. You need to protect yourself from any liability before you can start letting anyone in there.

It's a great idea though! Opening up a communal shop has always been one of my dreams (car and bike sections).

[-jro-]

Definately! Pole goes in day one!

I am pretty short on cash these dayd

[bigred875]

i think this is one of those "sounds good" ideas then turns to poo when the balls gets rolling.

if this is truly going to be a hobby thing make sure you have no problem footing the bill for everything and look at it as a bonus if people pay you...

like chris leads too...people suck a lot of the times...you dont want that factor ruining your hobby..

also need to be careful about liability(safety and theft) and the town ordinances etc...small towns get pretty picky when it comes to motors and gas tanks inside....

[richw]

I bet the horses were neater and better mechanics

There was a guy around here who rented lift and garage space

I know he didn't last long and the property looked like a junk yard.

A sailor whats the worst ship?



Partnership

[Doc]

Insurance is going to make it difficult and expensive. Having tried to start a business before, that was the number one cost, and ultimate killer. Anything relating to cars/bikes usually has hefty insurance costs associated with it. That's why most car/bike shops won't let customers into the work area, insuring for the inevitable uh-oh costs a lot.

Forming and LLC and having people sign waivers can only get you so far. Most good lawyers can punch right through those. You need to protect yourself from any liability before you can start letting anyone in there.

It's a great idea though! Opening up a communal shop has always been one of my dreams (car and bike sections).

I am hoping to not need insurance with the whole co-op/club idea. I will be looking into it though. The liabilty is a concern.

I am trying to take this in baby steps, not a full blown business venture. I am hoping to help out the bike community in the area with a place to work on and/or store bikes (especially in the winter), before other ideas (selling used bikes, used gear consignment shop, having seminars or other events) come out.

[Doc]

i think this is one of those "sounds good" ideas then turns to poo when the balls gets rolling.

if this is truly going to be a hobby thing make sure you have no problem footing the bill for everything and look at it as a bonus if people pay you...

like chris leads too...people suck a lot of the times...you dont want that factor ruining your hobby..

also need to be careful about liability(safety and theft) and the town ordinances etc...small towns get pretty picky when it comes to motors and gas tanks inside....

Definately looking at it as a hobby type thing and I am looking for a few hobby "partners" who are like minded to make sure I am not going this alone.

I know a waiver only goes so far but I am thinking an LLC will have everyone with an equal stake. No problem with the ordinances. Already zoned for this type thing.

[Doc]

I bet the horses were neater and better mechanics

There was a guy around here who rented lift and garage space

I know he didn't last long and the property looked like a junk yard.

A sailor whats the worst ship?

Partnership

Renting/leasing work space to non "members" with hourly rates is an idea that is being batted around.

[FTMS]

Defiantly look into insurance cost because they suck!!! If you say it is for storage only it won't be to bad. You say you are working on other peoples bikes, the rate just doubled if your lucky.

As much as partner idea is nice in terms of sharing cost and stuff, it usually doesn't work out to well.

Do I regret turning my hobby of motorcycles into my full time business, no. But it taken a few years to say I really enjoy what I am doing.

[Doc]

Defiantly look into insurance cost because they suck!!! If you say it is for storage only it won't be to bad. You say you are working on other peoples bikes, the rate just doubled if your lucky.

As much as partner idea is nice in terms of sharing cost and stuff, it usually doesn't work out to well.

Do I regret turning my hobby of motorcycles into my full time business, no. But it taken a few years to say I really enjoy what I am doing.

You and I need to sit down and chat.

[kb1]

If you need accounting help (dues/taxes/billing) I'd be more than happy to help out.