motoinno TS3 Telescopic Fork Killer

[Tekime]

What to make of this thing?



"lighter, more stable, no oscillation harmonics, constant geometry..."

Motorcycle innovation - Motorcycle Development

The creators of the Motoinno TS3 suspension claim that the bike they tested was one second quicker PER TURN than a Suzuki GSX carrying the same rider. This does indeed sound a bit far-fetched, but considering that they have plans to make a demonstration this year in Moto2, we're going to have to wait for more relevant results.

Motoinno TS3, the Hub Center Steering MacPherson Parallelogram Suspension

Looks crazy.. bet it will be fun getting parts for this but I'll still try it

[Tekime]

One second per corner

[boosten lebaron]

Bottom mounted brake caliper seems like an odd choice. I'm sure they had room constraints but I can see the caliper being the first to go in any sort of accident. I would also question it's effectiveness as it looks pretty small.

[PhilB]

Bottom mounted brake caliper seems like an odd choice. I'm sure they had room constraints but I can see the caliper being the first to go in any sort of accident. I would also question it's effectiveness as it looks pretty small.

Those are the standard calipers for the bike they used (Ducati 900SS). The location is odd-looking, but they had to get them out of the way of the moving suspension parts, and I don't see where it would cause any problems wihen riding. Maybe a bit more vulnerable in a crash, but that's not really a major consideration (especially in a prototype bike).

I think it looks promising, but we'll see how it actually does. They claim to be building an entry for Moto2 with this system -- that would definitely be the test. The telescopic fork has inherent design flaws, and has been due for a replacement technology for decades.

PhilB

[Paul_E_D]

How is it different from BMWs paralever?

[Paul_E_D]

And a second per corner? So they are going 12 seconds a lap faster?

That's a bizarre claim. some corners last a second, some last 7 seconds.

[Falko]

Benelli or Bimoto has something similar to this a while back, didn't they?

[jasnmar]

Another take on the same concept, from Honda.

[PhilB]

How is it different from BMWs paralever?

The Paralever is BMW's rear suspension design to eliminate shaft drive jacking.

The Telelever front suspension (what I presume is what you are referring to) is a compromise design, halfway between a telescopic fork and a swingarm front. It is better than a straight up fork. It was easier to design and produce and fit to existing bike designs than a proper front swingarm, but does not have the full design advantages of it. I liked it, and if that design was attached to a bike I otherwise really wanted, I'd have been happy to ride one. If they had put a Telelever or similar on the Buell 1125CR, I might well have bought one.

This new bit though is a new full swingarm design, so is more similar to Parker's RADD (think Yamaha GTS1000) or Bimota's Tesi designs.

Benelli or Bimoto has something similar to this a while back, didn't they?

The Bimota Tesi models (there have been three so far) have front suspensions that are similar in concept. According to this article, the main advantage of this new design is that it has a much more direct and precise connection between the steering and the wheel, thus having good feel and no slop (which have been issues in past front-swingarm designs).

Another take on the same concept, from Honda.

This one is another compromise design. It resembles the Earles forks that old BMWs had. Like the Telelever, it works to separate braking and suspension forces, but it also still mounts pretty high on the bike chassis. It would be better than a telescopic fork, but not as good as a full front swingarm, with regard to transmitting forces to the frame/chassis of the bike.

PhilB

[Dmitry]

Benelli or Bimoto has something similar to this a while back, didn't they?

Bimota Tesi

both of them are at Barber





Bimota Tesi - Wikipedia

and Vyrus

Vyrus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dmitry]

Bottom mounted brake caliper seems like an odd choice. I'm sure they had room constraints but I can see the caliper being the first to go in any sort of accident. I would also question it's effectiveness as it looks pretty small.

lower center of gravity, same reason the mount rear calipers upside down (and PITA to bleed)

those are standard Brembo Goldline calipers found on all Ducati bikes in the 90's, also Guzzi and Aprilia in to 2000's

[PhilB]

Yep. Both of these are similar in overall concept to this new TS3 design. Also note (since boosten lebaron had brought it up) that both of them also have bottom-mounted front brake calipers. The Bimota and the Vyrus both use rod-and-joint linkages for steering, though, which completely disconnect any feel for what the front is doing from your hands, and also introduce imprecision and slop to your inputs. Both of those are not good if you're riding at or near the edge. The TS3 purportedly solves those problems.

I hope this thing works well. I think it's well past time to come up with better front suspension design for bikes. I seriously considered buying a Bimota Tesi 3D at one point, even with the lack of front end feel. But Bimota designed the frame without regard to practicality, and checking and adjusting the valves was turned into a $3K engine-out job. Which is a real problem combined with having used a Ducati desmo engine that is supposed to have valve checks avery 7.5K miles. Ouch.

PhilB

[Paul_E_D]

How does the front axle move on these bad boys. Excuse My ignorance, but I'm enjoying the explanations.

[PhilB]

How does the front axle move on these bad boys. Excuse My ignorance, but I'm enjoying the explanations.

In all these designs, the axle on the front swingarm is fixed, and the wheel is mounted to a swiveling mechanism in the center of the axle that allows the wheel to turn. Most front swingarm designs thus suffer from pretty limited steering lock.

PhilB

[Dmitry]

How does the front axle move on these bad boys. Excuse My ignorance, but I'm enjoying the explanations.

See the close up of the Vyrus, looks like old superbike style quick release where the end caps pivot out and wheel is released, from there I assume some overly-complicated process of bearing and axle extraction with many small components that will make your brain hurt.

[jwm2k3]

How does the front axle move on these bad boys. Excuse My ignorance, but I'm enjoying the explanations.

You probably like all types of torture, dont you?

[Dmitry]

How does the front axle move on these bad boys. Excuse My ignorance, but I'm enjoying the explanations.

Oh yeah, axle is fixed, it's called "hub center steering" so the center of the hub rotates and turns, there are cutouts on the hub for the axle...

[Paul_E_D]

Holy crap. I remeber the term but never looked into it. Seems like an awful idea. Lol

[PhilB]

Nothing is new under the sun.
This is the Ner-a Car, from 1923.

PhilB

[Dmitry]

if you want to have your mind blown check out this, made by some mad OZ I think, all his website links are dead, but it was called Riwi, so search "Riwi fork" and select "mages"






then look up Yamaha GTs(?) whatever that singleside fork was on, Elf Honda, Gilera CX... (this one happens to be offered on eBay right now Other Makes CX125 | eBay)

[Rosco61]

I remember these Bikes also. 2 guys used to ride these into Moto Market when it was open a few years back.
I thought they were cool and of course unusual.

[PhilB]

I remember these Bikes also. 2 guys you to ride these into Moto Market when it was open a few years back.
I thought they were cool and of course unusual.

That was a development of James Parker's RADD system. Instead of the steering linkages the others used, it has a telescoping shaft from the top of the suspension to the steering stem, which I think should have been better for precision and feel. I haven't actually ridden one of those, but my impression is that they worked well; the problem was that it was expensive, and the advantages were not of enough value to the sport-touring customer base to justify the extra cost.

PhilB

[Paul_E_D]

How can these systems be lighter thank forks? That's a lot more hardware to do the same job.

[Kurlon]

How can these systems be lighter thank forks? That's a lot more hardware to do the same job.

Because the braking force is being directed into the motor the mass normally required for a beefy steering stem to swingarm pivot connection is no longer required. The system isn't lighter than a set of forks alone, but with the total package is lighter than you could accomplish with normal forks.

[Dmitry]

they aimed to stop the "brake dive" more than saving weight