Precision HD's new Rider Program

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

I'd put a VTX 1300 up against a road king in any category except "'merica" value.

Style. Displacement. Does a VTX come with cruise now? Air ride?

The heavy HD tourers are also ergonomic as can be.

At the other end of the spectrum the 883 Sportster is a solid choice for less than Shadow 750 money, last I checked.

Style? Compare them. Same bike.
Displacement? VTX comes in 1300 or 1800

Ergos. See style.
Options. Same. Except for air ride. The vtx doesn't need it. It has good suspension in stock form.

Quality? The Honda has far more
Power? The honda has far more
Reliability? The has far more
Price? VTX is far cheaper.


I'm not knocking anyone for buying a Harley. Do what you want, but don't try to tell me it's better in any way. It's a brand and you're buying an image, and that image IS exclusive of all other brands. It's the Harley way.

[nhbubba]

Meh, you're right Degs, of course. Good on you.

[Garandman]

Harley Davidson is kinda like the Hummer for cars. As sheppo correctly said they are incredible at marketing.
I have nothing to justify my following statement but I wouldn't be surprised if they generated more money than all the Japanese companies in US

You're probably close. Harley has about half the US market and it's all in the large-displacement (ie expensive) categories.

I sat with the HD dealer in Charleston, SC on a plane flight to New Orleans a few years ago. He was going to his dealer meeting. Charleston is a big tourist area.

He told me he sold over 400 HD tshirts (now $25-30 each) on a typical Summer Saturday - in other words $10,000 or more. They sold so many they had a truck to resupply from a warehouse mid-afternoon. He also told me that he sold more in apparel per year than motorcycles. Add in service and it's a good business.

On the current CR survey of motorcycle riders, BMW and HD were #1 and #2 in number of reported problems and #2 and #1 in customer satisfaction. Customer sat was substantially higher than Yamaha and Kawasaki, even though they had the fewest problems.

This shows very clearly why marketing folks devote so much effort to "branding." BMW, Ducati and HD may not produce the "best" motorcycles - but they produce the "most appealing brand experience."

You know, I like to rip Harleys now and then too. But ultimately, I understand the attraction. Their product isn't for me and may not necessarily be for you. But for some, it's just the ticket.

A guy I work with practically bleeds BMW blue. But last week he shows up at work with a brand new Road King. He says "I've always made fun of Harleys, but secretly, I've always wanted one." And I have to say, it ain't too bad for a touring bike. Self adjusting lifters, rubber isolated engine, 6-speed trans, air suspension, ABS, frickin' cruise control. And not an once of plastic to fuck with! He claims it was cheaper than a 'wing too./

Ken?

So after a year or so with a bad case of New Bike Fever, that seemed incurable, I finally bought a new bike..

No, it wasnt the 848 or the Panagale, despite multiple test rides.
It wasnt a used 900SS like the one I spent 3 weeks falling in love with last fall in Prague
It wasnt the new Water Cooled GS.. which was nice to ride, but just not 20k different than my current 2 BMW Boxers.
It wasnt the K Bike that all you K Bike Fast Guys love.. I already have a K Bike-a-saki.. altho its getting long in the tooth..
I just couldn't love the new Moto Guzzi.. I did try.... really..
It wasnt the WR400 or the KTM Ex that I rode around PA all last weekend, hopping trees and ducking branches.. that was a lot of fun...

Nope, I fell victim to unbridled moto-lust combined with good old fashioned tried and true drug dealer like tactics "try it, you'll like it.."

I walk past the Harley Dealer every day to get a sandwich at the nearest Subway. Often the line is out the door and I go over to look at the bikes and talk to the "hey bro's" in the parking lot.
The sales guys always ask me if today is the day Im gonna buy it, and I always say no, Im a beemer guy.. and I just don't have a convincing Harley Scowl..

Well, They rolled a 2013 Black Road King Classic out for me to test ride the other day, and I said sure whats the worst that can happen.

I handed them the money and took it home.. didn't see that coming... But it makes sense, I've had a poster of a Softail on the wall for 20 years, and its very pretty to look at.

They shake their heads when they see me wearing my Aerostitch and full face helmet, but I just laugh and (slowly) motor on by...

The bike is pretty nice, I have to say, and I've already put on several hundred miles and the "Buyers Remorse" hasnt kicked in..




Some may think I've lost my mind, and you may be right, but I'm having a great time ;-)

[nhbubba]

Ken?

It is quite pretty in person. Not my bag, but I get it.

He didn't tell me he test rode the ducs...

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

Meh, you're right Degs, of course. Good on you.

I'm always right. (He said, tongue in cheek)

I taught riders edge for a Harley dealership for a while. I am very impressed with the way they market the Harley life as a package. It is part of the code to not knock other brands, and precision would likely be in trouble with corporate if Harley saw that wording about sportbikes.

I give Harley kudos for donating so much to the AMA and MSF also. They are the major contributor. I have ridden many Harley's and enjoyed the ride. I tend to really examine bikes though, and look under the chrome panels on a Harley and you will see hardware that looks like it came from Home Depot and welds that look like I did them with a blindfold on.

I do enjoy seeing "made in Japan" (by Showa, owned by Honda incidentally) on the inside of Harley fork lega. And the brake calipers are made by Brembo. A Harley is as American as a Toyota Camry.

Great marketing, great looking from 10 feet away and a lifestyle millions of people aspire to. I give them that. I'm just not impressed with the deep down quality and the perception that they are 100% American and they can overprice them because of that.

[7470racer]

I have a unique perspective to this thread. I rode a 1970 Harley Shovelhead. Not exactly a smooth ride, but the "cool" factor was high. I spend gobs of money and time customizing it all the while fixing the factory deficiencies over the course of the 21 years I owned it.
Gettin older and involved in a little racing, it was time I tried a Sport bike. Over the course of the last 7 years, I went though all the usual suspects: GSXR (2), EX, FZR, VFR, GS and realized my arms were too short - I know sounds like a personal problem. In the process of owning these, I realized one thing. The guys that always crap on the HD's - the bikes they rode had their own shortcomings. Eveything from, poor suspension (oh, you have to ditch that factory shock for a Penske) to a dead throttle up to 3,500 rpm (think 99 GSXR, bought the TRE mod, slightly better) and even stalling coming off throttle (VFR800). I Googled all these issues and found some of these bikes and others I was interested in - they all had something wrong out of the box (cross plane motor vs whatever previous motor was)- even the BMW's and Ducati's of the world.
News flash: Nobody's perfect. Anyone that rides two wheels is OK with me. Sportbike riders, track day riders, dual purpose, motorcross riders, touring riders across individual makes, even models can be at times, high-school clicky, if that is a word.

[Garandman]

/Nobodys perfect.

I'm always right. /

Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave.

[gixxer72]

Wirelessly posted



A Harley is as American as a Toyota Camry.

Right. Because Toyotas have been an American icon since 1903.

I've been in love with GSXR's since 1988, and still own one. They are great at what they do. Coolest bike I've ridden? An old Shovel, AMF era. I can't properly articulate why, and its all subjective anyway. You probably know better than I do about the quality comparisons, but there sure are a lot of older, high mileage HD's out there still going. Even the 'shittier' AMF bikes...

[Garandman]

Funny thing is, when I was a kid all the "greasers" rode HD's, the cool guys rode Triumphs, the serious riders BMW, and the iconoclasts Moto Guzis, Enfields, BSA's an Nortons. The Triumph Bonneville was the most common bike I recall. The absolute coolest for me was a Norton Commando. Occasionally think about buying one but then I come back to my senses.....

[xxaarraa]

I am not a Harley fan and never will be. But berating them or their owners is lame. I think it is similar to people hating on Ducati owners. I wonder if people are fundamentally jealous of believers and their "cultures"

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

Is that a dig at me? I'm not berating anyone or anything. I'm just stating my opinion. To each his own.

[Garandman]

I am not a Harley fan and never will be. But berating them or their owners is lame. I think it is similar to people hating on Ducati owners. I wonder if people are fundamentally jealous of believers and their "cultures"

if you mean are others jealous of consumers who have become emotionally involved with 'their' brands, I think pity is more like it.

Just like the guys who have to own the fastest gadget - say a BMW M3, or an AMG with a "hand assembled pedigree" or a Ducati super bike to create a sense of self worth. Iit's a little sad - but we work hard every day to create a brand as strong, because it means more $$$! Branding is all the rage, and BMW, Ducati, and HD are some of,the strongest brands in the world. Ever seen anyone with a Ford tattoo? I haven't, but play hockey with two guys with HD tattoos.

[Tricky Mike]

Hey, I have a gixxah tattoo... did I just say that out loud?

[tsorfas]

if you mean are others jealous of consumers who have become emotionally involved with 'their' brands, I think pity is more like it.
.

i have definitely seen people with Ford tattoos. that doesnt mean anything to me.
I am emotionally attached to Suzuki and forever will be for my own reasons. that being said Id never get it tattooed and I have, currently am, and will own other bikes as well.
we ride motorcycles thats what we do as riders, we have feelings for those "machines" that most people (non riders) dont understand. Each to his own opinion and desire.
I dont know about the quality of HD (not nearly as much as Degsy) but I have seen some incredible riders on HD and some show offs. whatever it doesnt affect my life. good for them, let em be happy.

and on that note lets close it with the Legend: GEORGE CARLIN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHNRgg3mQqA

[nhbubba]

"...and chilli ain't never been cool!"

[xxaarraa]

Wirelessly posted

Is that a dig at me? I'm not berating anyone or anything. I'm just stating my opinion. To each his own.

No Derek, not at you. Was a response to the general "metrics ride better" opinions based on nothing but prejudice.

[xxaarraa]

if you mean are others jealous of consumers who have become emotionally involved with 'their' brands, I think pity is more like it.

Just like the guys who have to own the fastest gadget - say a BMW M3, or an AMG with a "hand assembled pedigree" or a Ducati super bike to create a sense of self worth. Iit's a little sad - but we work hard every day to create a brand as strong, because it means more $$$! Branding is all the rage, and BMW, Ducati, and HD are some of,the strongest brands in the world. Ever seen anyone with a Ford tattoo? I haven't, but play hockey with two guys with HD tattoos.

You are assuming those brands that elicit the most loyalty and "culture" don't make great products and that people only buy them to improve their self worth. Haven't heard a more dumb or arrogant statement recently. Yes,without a doubt, an M3, an AMG or a Ducati Superbike are all fine examples of engineering and some people buy them for just that. Not sure why you put "hand assembled pedigree" in quotes because all AMG engines are in fact hand assembled. I have owned all 3 of the examples you cited above and appreciate them for what they are.

Some people like the good stuff for the actual engineering value, regardless of what others think. I am not the one going around bashing other products or their owners, you seem to be.

[FalArAk]

What makes the Harley Davidson "culture" more fun ?

I don't want to dress like a pirate.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted

Is that a dig at me? I'm not berating anyone or anything. I'm just stating my opinion. To each his own.

No Derek, not at you. Was a response to the general "metrics ride better" opinions based on nothing but prejudice.

Ah. Gotcha.

[Chippertheripper]

You are assuming those brands that elicit the most loyalty and "culture" don't make great products and that people only buy them to improve their self worth. Haven't heard a more dumb or arrogant statement recently. Yes,without a doubt, an M3, an AMG or a Ducati Superbike are all fine examples of engineering and some people buy them for just that. Not sure why you put "hand assembled pedigree" in quotes because all AMG engines are in fact hand assembled. I have owned all 3 of the examples you cited above and appreciate them for what they are.

Some people like the good stuff for the actual engineering value, regardless of what others think. I am not the one going around bashing other products or their owners, you seem to be.

I think he just meant any kind of cork sniffery by the hand assembled thing.

[Stoneman]

Just so I understand: While a great deal of Harley owners berate & belittle foreign sportbike owners based on perceived and inaccurate notions, it's entirely unacceptable for us to return the sentiment? Do I have that correct?

[SteveM]

A

Just so I understand: While a great deal of Harley owners berate & belittle foreign sportbike owners based on perceived and inaccurate notions, it's entirely unacceptable for us to return the sentiment? Do I have that correct?

Yes, we should rise above the lowest common denominator and be more broad minded than them because we are a lot smarter than them, are better riders than them and made much better decisions about everything in our lives than they did.

Most people try to make themselves feel better about their choices, often by denigrating someone else's different choices.

Here's a novel theory, if you are willing to head out into a world full of mindless texting cagers on a motorcycle, you're good in my book and I feel no reason to create some hierarchy of bike choices.

[gregp]

IMO - As far as the original post goes, to call that gathering "training", under the pretense that some sort of "rider education" is going to take place, appears to be grossly inaccurate. It appears to be an HD sales pitch. Nothing more. I have seen other Motorcycle and Car Dealerships have similar "Party's", but I have never seen one billed as "Training" before. If one were to dig deep enough, there may be some legal ramification there - (buy new bike, crash, "but I was trained at PHD!", etc.)

[Garandman]

You are assuming those brands that elicit the most loyalty and "culture" don't make great products and that people only buy them to improve their self worth. Haven't heard a more dumb or arrogant statement recently./.

Right back atcha.


This article went one to note that HD and BMW owners had the highest customer satisfaction - an emotional, not quantitative measure.

A

Yes, we should rise above the lowest common denominator and be more broad minded than them because we are a lot smarter than them, are better riders than them and made much better decisions about everything in our lives than they did.

Most people try to make themselves feel better about their choices, often by denigrating someone else's different choices.

Here's a novel theory, if you are willing to head out into a world full of mindless texting cagers on a motorcycle, you're good in my book and I feel no reason to create some hierarchy of bike choices.

I think this thread only has legs because it's raining and 37 degrees.

[Stoneman]

...If one were to dig deep enough, there may be some legal ramification there - (buy new bike, crash, "but I was trained at PHD!", etc.)

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