A ride leader's responsibility to the group

[butcher bergs]

What, do you feel, are the key roles of the leader in a group ride?

Does the leader set the example for the type of riding?

Can the leader set a certain pace even though it sometimes might not suit the group's general capabilities?

How responsible is the leader should a mishap occur?

Is it up to the leader to set ground rules regardless of group size and/ or average riding experience of that group?



A few notes before we get started:

--To those that were on the sub-secret ride, these are questions I need answered for future reference. Please understand that it is no way directed toward anyone.

--I respectfully ask NESR that, once you hit "Reply", this thread stay informative and on topic.

--Keep the drama out.
Funny = good
Drama = not so much

[KB]

A group ride is a group and as such is a group and is formed and performs as a group and functions as a group. Therefore no one person is responsible for said group.

However is one individual feels responsible for said group then this one persons sole responsibility is to look after said group and assume the leader of said group. That being said, then said person should consult with said group, get opinions, and represent said group as a whole accordingly.

KB

[naked-daytrader]

Ride leader isn't responsible for anything or anybody!! We're all adults,he's not babysitting 3rd graders of a fieldtrip. He has some obligation to wait a minute or two at stop signs, turns etc but thats about it. That's all i expect out of my ride "leader", and to find me some good roads. I look at a ride leader as;

You're working for me bitch, now go find me the best roads possible for this ride, you put it together, you wanted to show us all some great roads....now go, do my bidding for me you monkey!

[brendanp]

Mark, why dont you tell us how you really feel.
I tend to agree with what your saying. I do think it is a good idea for the leader to have a little group chat prior to going out. It is always good to have a plan if something does go bad.

(And mark, i love your brutal honesty in some of your posts I have read)

[DucDave]

Excellent topic Paul...now lets see how well we can follow your instructions/requests!!!

____________________________________________________________
When I lead a ride, that I have started, I do the following:

I have a short riders meeting before leaving and cover the following:

THREE RULES
1. Ride your own ride. PERIOD. No stunting please.
2. Don’t pass me unless you know where we’re going and NEVER pass on the right.
3. No One Left Behind – 8 out 8 back
. a. Don’t Leave Group without letting me know if possible
. b. I stop at all major intersections AND change of routes
. c. Watch for rider behind you. If they're not there stop and wait

FIVE OTHER TOPICS
1. Fuel Requirements? Is everyone gassed up? Can anyone get less than 100 miles?
2. Ride Staggered when slow….
3. Leave 3-4 seconds at speed
4. Hand Signals for new riders
5. Pass out Cell phone number in case someone peels off without telling me

I lead a pace that I am comfortable with - usually spirited but not stupid. If the ride is more than 4 or 5 people I ask for a sweeper. A good sweeper makes a big ride a joy!

I encourage folks to split off if they're unhappy with the pace or anything else. Just let me know.

If its a large group with new riders I will check with the sweeper to be sure that everyone understands the 'nature' of the ride. I count on him/her to let me know if he sees any dangerous/squidly behavior. If I need to I'll take a rider aside and ask them to enjoy themselves but to keep it in the spirit of the ride. If that's too hard they are welcome to split off on their own!

I am NOT RESPONSIBLE if there's an accident but I am responsible to see that the rider gets medical attention if needed.

I am not responsibe for his or her equipment whether due to mechanical problem or accident. I won't shorten a ride for one rider.

I do ask for feedback occaisionally during the day.

I don't lead 'race track' rides. Thats not the kind of ride that I lead. My rides are 'Sport Tour' in the traditional sense I guess.

This is just how how do it...and I know, from experience, this works for a lot of folks. But not everyone.

As for joining a ride, if I know ahead of time that it's a ride I won't be comfortable with I don't go. And if I find out after I join that I don't feel comfortable I let the group know I'm going my own way.

Oh...and if Bergs comes I know that I have a good man watching my back!


(I ride like a pussy cus I don't want to crash....again)

[Doc]

If I am leading I try to make sure people know where I am going.

Conversely it each riders responsibilty to make sure they guy behind them does not get lost.

I also try to stay at a good comfy pace. Not to fast as to lose the group, not to slow to stack them up.

[bigred875]

it depends on the focus of the ride....a casual small(er) ride with friends and l agree with KB/daytrader...just ride....if the ride is big with newer riders and to some event or day long rip throughout unfamiliar territory i'm with ducdave

[DucDave]

it depends on the focus of the ride....a casual small(er) ride with friends and l agree with KB/daytrader...just ride....if the ride is big with newer riders and to some event or day long rip throughout unfamiliar territory i'm with ducdave

Agreed....

(this is becoming a habit...wanna get a room?)

[bigred875]

kinda

[Kham]

If I am leading I try to make sure people know where I am going.

Conversely it each riders responsibilty to make sure they guy behind them does not get lost.

I also try to stay at a good comfy pace. Not to fast as to lose the group, not to slow to stack them up.

nice n simple. stick together...

as for finding good routes, no promises. we all want good routes.

stunt is good if not over done. i like people who can do it and ride well. not the chrome tshirt R1 type.

[bigred875]

really? i love chrome tshirts

[Origin]

The way I see it, The group leader is not responsible for everyone, Only the person behind him. The person behind him is then responsible for the next person and so on. Like daytrader said, I really only hold the leader accountable for finding good roads.

A quick overview of how the ride will be before heading out is usually good, Just to go over the pace, destination, and other little things.

[Currently]

Simple and common sense ...

Riding with noobs, you watch over them, coach them and generally instill a sense of security.

With your peers ...

My nightmare would be to arrive home and find out that one of the tail draggers wrecked ... if not worse.

When I ride alone or with just one more person, the whole dynamic then shifts to self responsibility.

Most people ride differently in a group. That needs to be taken in account by the ride leader.

[ThisBitch]

stunt is good if not over done. i like people who can do it and ride well. not the chrome tshirt R1 type.

+1 on that... If you're an experienced rider and you're in the back of the pack, not putting my safety at risk, by all means, loft the front tire. From my experience, the riders who show up in t-shirts, sweat pants and Air Jordans like the guy on the ride Robb and Bill lead are typically shitty riders. That guy was slow as shit and almost dumped it making a tight, low-speed turn. Perhaps some remedial MSF lessons would help.


As far as a group ride leader's responsibility, if the group is 5+ or includes people you don't know, I think its in EVERYONE'S best interest to find out what everyone's level of experience and pace preference is. This is not to say that you would have to slow the pace if someone says they are uncomfortable, it means you have the opportunity ahead of time to tell them to find another ride.

I also think that it is your responsibility to lay out what your ground rules are. You can't hold people accountable for breaking rules they didn't know about. Although to most of us, group ride practices (staggered formation, space out in twisties, wave faster riders by, don't pass unless waved by, etc) are second nature, they aren't to most people. As of late, I've had multiple issues with people riding my ass in turns, braking mid-turn in front of me, etc. If a ride leader sets the ground rules at the beginning, it makes it a lot easier to say something during the ride.

[duey]

Solution to this drama.....


....stay home?

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Agreed....

(this is becoming a habit...wanna get a room?)

kinda

two timers...

[Crash Dummy Denno]

all kidding aside we need to do a nice big ride this sunday morning

[Jim]

when I lead, i'm always looking behind me at corners and yellow lights to make sure no one is left behind. i always try to ride to the right, so the followers can get in stagged formation & because my exhaust is loud. If I dont know every rider and their riding ability, i ride slow, usually one hand on my leg. i'll ask the group if i'm riding too fast/slow for them after a few mins & make adjustments if necessary. Where I dont know many good roads, but I havent heard of any complaints or people wanting to take over the lead.

[ThisBitch]

all kidding aside we need to do a nice big ride this sunday morning

I hope you're serious, because the weather looks MINT and I didn't get to ride this past weekend.

Sorry

[seth399]

as long as the leader does a few nice burnouts I am cool with him

I don't really ever like to lead for some reason, yet I hate when I can't go as fast as I want in corners/sections...so basically I'm a goon.

[stoinkythepig]

A good group leader will only invite one or two other riders of equal skill. Anyone with experience already knows that big group rides are more trouble than they are worth.

[markbvt]

I lead quite a few rides as the leader of my local Triumph RAT pack, which means that our rides frequently have people of varying ability levels and may include both sportbikes and cruisers.

I see it as my responsibility when leading a ride to make sure that all members of the group are accounted for. I'll set a pace that's fun but not too likely to attract police attention (I generally keep it 10-20 mph over the limit on the open road, and stick to the limit in towns; although the pace will typically increase a bit on twisty sections). If we have riders who are new to the group, I also let them know beforehand that they should ride at their own pace, and we will wait for them before any direction changes.

Frankly, I think it's irresponsible for any ride leader not to keep track of the group when leading a ride that's open to the public. This doesn't necessarily mean that the ride leader needs to know where each individual in the group is -- maybe he has help by making it clear that each person needs to keep track of the person behind them, or maybe he has someone riding sweep. Whatever. But IMO it's unacceptable for a ride leader to lose members of the group, even if they are complete newbs. If he doesn't want to accept the responsibility, then he shouldn't lead rides -- or should only lead private rides consisting of people he knows can keep up.

--mark

[DucDave]

all kidding aside we need to do a nice big ride this sunday morning

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...gust-24th.html

...but you probably won't be happy on this one...

[Kham]

when I lead, i'm always looking behind me at corners and yellow lights to make sure no one is left behind. i always try to ride to the right, so the followers can get in stagged formation & because my exhaust is loud. If I dont know every rider and their riding ability, i ride slow, usually one hand on my leg. i'll ask the group if i'm riding too fast/slow for them after a few mins & make adjustments if necessary. Where I dont know many good roads, but I havent heard of any complaints or people wanting to take over the lead.

if jim leads, i'll hijack his ride like the glaucoma guy. faster faster..

we're still on topic.

[bigred875]

A good group leader will only invite one or two other riders of equal skill. Anyone with experience already knows that big group rides are more trouble than they are worth.

if everyone did this i would have never been on a good group ride... personally i like to try and help the newbs out. IMO it is rewarding watching a newb/squid turn into a rider...