School me on Tards

[theducman]

So I am looking to go racing some time within the next 2 years. I really wanted to race an EX, Hawk or SV (if I can find one real cheep). But, after talking to a guy yesterday who has a supermotard and raves about it at the track, its got me thinking. I have never been on a dirt bike style bike. So now I am torn. Any input would be great.

[Pittenger5]

If youre gonna race at Loudon. Tard, if youre gonna race anywhere else, not tard.

[theducman]

it will be loudon

["Dangerous" Dan K]

What do you want to spend? Both as an initial investment and per race/weekend/season/whatever?

I really like my EX as a starter for LRRS. You can get a decent one for short $, they don't eat tires, and on the rare occasion they need work it's cheap enough. OTOH, I think a tard would be fun as hell! I really want to ride one.

For me, the downside for both bikes is leaving Loudon. I said I'd only race Loudon when I started too, just over a year later and Jersey is making its way onto my calander. VIR next. Then who knows...

At Loudon, my EX is just fine. Anytime I think of another track, I wish I had an SV or bigger.

[Pittenger5]

Motards are maintenance intensive to, SVs less-so and EXs even less than that.

[Pittenger5]

PS. I said Loudon only too, now my motards sitting 1400 miles away and I wish I had an SV. Or a place to keep my motard here.

[lrrs313]

Tards are rediculously fun at Loudon. Very high corner speed, outbrake anything on the track (except probably 125GP bikes), pretty forgiving handling. The only downside is that they need to be rebuilt more often than most other bikes. Most of the Jap 450s should get a new piston over the winter and at halfway, new crank every year to year and a half. Valves should probably be replaced every two seasons. That said, if you're mechanically inclined at all, you can get a high-compression piston for around $250, a crank for about $280, and a head can get new valves/seats/springs/guides installed for under $1000.

Oh yeah, and they crash really well. If you break something on them bad enough that you can't finish the race, you did something special.

NOTE: Reliability and maintenance needs are directly related to modification level. A bone stock bike with an exhaust can go an entire season without anything but maybe a valve adjustment. A heavily modified motor may only last a weekend (sometimes not even that long). That said, you don't need to modify the motor as a novice, and even as an AM just a high compression piston should be all you need to be quite competitive. It's only when you get to be an expert that motor really gets important, but at that point you're going to have to have some major skills anyways because you've got guys like Martire, Donovan, Narbonne, and Block (and occasionaly one of the Wood brothers) at the front.

EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot tires. One or two sets a season (again, until you get really fast).

[Awesome]

My motard has tons of time on it, well maintained and doesn't need anything. 4 seasons and the valves haven't moved a bit, piston is in great shape and it runs like a top.

[csmutty]

My motard has tons of time on it, well maintained and doesn't need anything. 4 seasons and the valves haven't moved a bit, piston is in great shape and it runs like a top.

Do you race?

[Fitz]

Do you race?

^^What he said.

1st gen SV's (99-02) can be found built and ready to go for about $2,500 locally. Usually that will include race bodywork, rear sets, clip ons, some sort of rear shock (penske double clicker, etc..) and occasionally emulators too. The bike is decent on tires, will run multiple seasons on one motor and will be competitive from a novice level up through expert... .. .. at least that's why I got one.

GP bikes intrigue me... however the maintenance scares me. Motards seem like fun but with zero dirtbike experience, I think I'd be opening up a can of worms.

Fitz

[csmutty]

My motard has tons of time on it, well maintained and doesn't need anything. 4 seasons and the valves haven't moved a bit, piston is in great shape and it runs like a top.

Ahh shit...didn't realize you changed your name. Your tard must be weird because everyone else always has to rebuild.

[Pittenger5]

GP bikes intrigue me... however the maintenance scares me. Motards seem like fun but with zero dirtbike experience, I think I'd be opening up a can of worms.

Fitz

I had zero dirt bike experience.

[Pittenger5]

And my dirt bike went 1.5 years with no issues. But it was hurting at that point.

[Fitz]

I had zero dirt bike experience.

Yeah but you moved to FL where everything is flat. If I try a motard do I need to subsequently move to FL?



Fitz

[Pittenger5]

Yah, cause motards are designed for straight flat roads. FML.


If that IS true, I recommend no one ride a motard.

[Awesome]

Ahh shit...didn't realize you changed your name. Your tard must be weird because everyone else always has to rebuild.

Or everyone else doesn't build 'em right.

It's funny that they blow up often when friends borrow the ones with no slipper clutch. Friends that are used to GP shift bikes and don't know what happened when they just blew up. Mine still takes 525's down the front straight.

[csmutty]

Or everyone else doesn't build 'em right.

It's funny that they blow up often when friends borrow the ones with no slipper clutch. Friends that are used to GP shift bikes and don't know what happened when they just blew up. Mine still takes 525's down the front straight.

What kind of bike is it? Must not be a Honda.

[Kurlon]

Mine still takes 525's down the front straight.

That's not hard, 525's are pigs compared to 450s. : ) Slightly down on peak power and a reduced rev range, their only advantage is a bit more torque on bottom. They're really, really mild out of the crate.

If you can wax an EFI KX450 now you've got my attention.

[Awesome]

What kind of bike is it? Must not be a Honda.

03 honda CRF450R

That's not hard, 525's are pigs compared to 450s. : ) Slightly down on peak power and a reduced rev range, their only advantage is a bit more torque on bottom. They're really, really mild out of the crate.

If you can wax an EFI KX450 now you've got my attention.

I don't want your attention, or your opinion.

[MysteriousR1]

My motard has tons of time on it, well maintained and doesn't need anything. 4 seasons and the valves haven't moved a bit, piston is in great shape and it runs like a top.

Many of oil changes, have had the valves adjusted a couple times. It could blow up tomorrow and I wouldnt have a single regret getting one. Funnest damn bike ive ridden.

[Kurlon]

I don't want your attention, or your opinion.

Too bad, this is the Internets, my opinion will be voiced!

[csmutty]

03 honda CRF450R

Wow...how the hell is that possible? Hondas from those years were known for having valves made of butter. Do you have the kibble whites in it?

[union]

Or everyone else doesn't build 'em right.

It's funny that they blow up often when friends borrow the ones with no slipper clutch. Friends that are used to GP shift bikes and don't know what happened when they just blew up. Mine still takes 525's down the front straight.

I guess I should have blown your up when I took it out. Although I was coming off a pretty nasty highside a couple of hours prior to riding your bike.

Tards are a ton of fun at loudon.

[theducman]

Tards are rediculously fun at Loudon. Very high corner speed, outbrake anything on the track (except probably 125GP bikes), pretty forgiving handling. The only downside is that they need to be rebuilt more often than most other bikes. Most of the Jap 450s should get a new piston over the winter and at halfway, new crank every year to year and a half. Valves should probably be replaced every two seasons. That said, if you're mechanically inclined at all, you can get a high-compression piston for around $250, a crank for about $280, and a head can get new valves/seats/springs/guides installed for under $1000.

Oh yeah, and they crash really well. If you break something on them bad enough that you can't finish the race, you did something special.

NOTE: Reliability and maintenance needs are directly related to modification level. A bone stock bike with an exhaust can go an entire season without anything but maybe a valve adjustment. A heavily modified motor may only last a weekend (sometimes not even that long). That said, you don't need to modify the motor as a novice, and even as an AM just a high compression piston should be all you need to be quite competitive. It's only when you get to be an expert that motor really gets important, but at that point you're going to have to have some major skills anyways because you've got guys like Martire, Donovan, Narbonne, and Block (and occasionaly one of the Wood brothers) at the front.

EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot tires. One or two sets a season (again, until you get really fast).

Wow did not now there was that much maintenance needed on these. Maybe I will stick to the EX idea. Thanks for the input

[csmutty]

Wow did not now there was that much maintenance needed on these. Maybe I will stick to the EX idea. Thanks for the input

That is the only reason that I am on an EX and not on a tard. If I could afford the maint. I would be on one.