Slipper clutches and rear tire life

[richw]

I think that the zx-10R has a slipper clutch as do some others

I always felt that 1/3 of a rear tire wear was from me downshifting.

Ergo: bikes with slipper clutches should exhibit noticeably better tire life with the same riding styles

Has anyone gone from a conventional bike and then to a slipper clutch and experienced better rear tire life

[gixxer6]

I'm not sure your bike comes through with a slipper dude. BUT, if it does..change it out fast. Riding on the street with a slipper will roast tyres and could possibly cause you to fall if it catches you off guard, in say..a hard corner or something where you are matching rev's through the corner on a downhsift, and driving out of it real hard. But that's my opinion. I rode a friend's 996 with a slipper on the street last year and it was all kinds of weird. But hey, to each his or her own, right? Call Eastern Cycle Ducati, and ask when Scott French will be in next. Call him at that time and tell him Heath Smith #337, sent you. He'll have every answer you could possibly need about slipper's. He's a real good cat. And he won his class this year too..hehehe

Heath-

[RandyO]

I agree rich, I dunno WTF heath is talking about

[richw]

Mostly thinking alone zx-10R

that alludes to a slipper clutch

[Paul_E_D]

I don't understand what anyone here is talking about??? Unless you lock you rear tire while downshifting, tire life won't be effected. Engine breaking forces are small compared to acceleration and braking.

As far as slipper clutches being dangerous... That's insane. Use your BRAKES to slow for corners, and it doesn't matter if you have a slipper or not. They are designed to be SAFER while downshifting entering corners. The rear wheel can't lock and you can't blow the motor by over-revving. Seems all good to me.

Two-stroke street bikes were common and had no engine braking. Many people survived that era. I haven't heard anything but positive comments about the new sportbikes that come stock with slipper clutches.

[richw]

Here the hypothesis

Slipper clutches are designed to permit the rear wheel to near free wheel during down shifting so as not to have the tires break away or at least disturb your line if at the limit of traction. Engine breaking and accelerating the gear train during downshifting putting real stress on the rear tire

I had a worked on kz1000 (nice story grandpa) and if I dropped a gear you good hear a chirp from the tire

SO my question if you eliminate this stress and therefore decelerate almost only on front tire do the rear tires last longer.

Example
ChR1s used to have R1s and now has a zx-10R (that would make him a ch10r boy: no offense) Did he used to get 4000 on a rear and seems to be doing better on the 10R

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
I don't understand what anyone here is talking about??? Unless you lock you rear tire while downshifting, tire life won't be effected. Engine breaking forces are small compared to acceleration and braking.

As far as slipper clutches being dangerous... That's insane. Use your BRAKES to slow for corners, and it doesn't matter if you have a slipper or not. They are designed to be SAFER while downshifting entering corners. The rear wheel can't lock and you can't blow the motor by over-revving. Seems all good to me.

Two-stroke street bikes were common and had no engine braking. Many people survived that era. I haven't heard anything but positive comments about the new sportbikes that come stock with slipper clutches.

I am simply repeating what a friend of mine who also happens to be of the engineering breed told me. I usually believe this person, because they give me long technical explanations for any question I ask. If you wanna believe it, fine, if not, fine. This person also has a ton of years on a motorbike, which adds to the validity of those afore mentioned technical explanations. Sorry I can't repeat what I was told, it was long and I can't remember much, except what I wrote here. Didn't say anything about danger, only that they act much differently in the street environment, period. I think they creat tyre hop on the street too, but that may just be the bike I was riding, I dunno? Whatever...sorry I even commented...won't try and help anymore..nope.

"The rear wheel can't lock and you can't blow the motor by over-revving. Seems all good to me. "

Isn't that what a limiter does? Keeps it from exploding between your legs? KABOOOM!! Woo Hooo!! To the moon!!!

[ChR1s]

The slipper on the zx-10R is very smooth, and adjustable for actuation (they say). I've ridden an RSV-R with pneumatic slipper, which had a much more pronounced actuation. Perhaps a v-twin with an abrupt (dis)engagement of the slipper could be unsettling at times, especially with a wonky F.I. setup? Now that the big-bores have close-ratio gearboxes and top-end heavy power, I guess there's a greater likelihood of snicking down more gears during braking. And, more benefit to a slipper if there's one or two too many taps on the gearchange lever.

I'm not usually in need of banging gears down for corner entries and getting compression-braking rubber, as I've a habit of blipping the throttle during downshifts, but it's nice to know the slipper is there. Actually, I have to try to discern the thing.

As for a slipper contributing to a rear tire's life span? I'd relegate that to negligible at best. The tire's going to be trashed from much more severe loads other than braking.

I've only got about 3k miles on the 10R, and the OE D218s aren't offering much grip. The R1s went through all manner of f/r tires by 3k miles as well. No commuting.

[RSVMILLE661]

My aprilia has a slipper clutch.. or a pneumatic power clutch as they like to call it.

I love it.. it makes life real easy when on track.. Yes it does extend tire life by preventing rear tire lock up.

just my .02

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by ChR1s
The slipper on the zx-10R is very smooth, and adjustable for actuation (they say). I've ridden an RSV-R with pneumatic slipper, which had a much more pronounced actuation. Perhaps a v-twin with an abrupt (dis)engagement of the slipper could be unsettling at times, especially with a wonky F.I. setup? Now that the big-bores have close-ratio gearboxes and top-end heavy power, I guess there's a greater likelihood of snicking down more gears during braking. And, more benefit to a slipper if there's one or two too many taps on the gearchange lever.

I'm not usually in need of banging gears down for corner entries and getting compression-braking rubber, as I've a habit of blipping the throttle during downshifts, but it's nice to know the slipper is there. Actually, I have to try to discern the thing.

As for a slipper contributing to a rear tire's life span? I'd relegate that to negligible at best. The tire's going to be trashed from much more severe loads other than braking.

I've only got about 3k miles on the 10R, and the OE D218s aren't offering much grip. The R1s went through all manner of f/r tires by 3k miles as well. No commuting.

Cool. Thanks for the tech info. very interesting...Hey not to hijack, but anyone got any cool nerdy info on the performance of the new 10RR Honda's, electronic damper? What an amazing gizmo!!!
Woo Hoo gizmo's are very cool!!! I remember one of you dude's telling me at the track that you almost shot it out from under ya, and that thing kicked in and stopped the front end from slapping or something like that? What the hell is the REAL deal behind that thing???Anyone? Anyone?

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by RandyO
I agree rich, I dunno WTF heath is talking about

Bla bla bla budeee bla bla bla

[Paul_E_D]

Gixxer6, I wan't trying to flame anyone. Sorry about that.

Rev limiters only work while accelerating. Downshift too early and any bike will rev until it pops. (well, spins a bearing anyway) Think about it. it's a mechanical issue. Rev limiters are electronic devices that cut the ignition to prevent you from accelerating beyond a safe limit. There's nothing that can stop the motor from spinning faster when you downshift too early.

[ChR1s]

Originally posted by gixxer6
Hey not to hijack, but anyone got any cool nerdy info on the performance of the new 10RR Honda's, electronic damper? What an amazing gizmo!!!

Try here?

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/hesd/

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by ChR1s
Try here?

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/hesd/

Oh dude!! Super fokin cool!!! Thanks!!! This is great!!! Ya got any tricky sites for the Yammy YZ426/450? huh? huh? huh? Don't hold out dude!!!

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Gixxer6, I wan't trying to flame anyone. Sorry about that.

Rev limiters only work while accelerating. Downshift too early and any bike will rev until it pops. (well, spins a bearing anyway) Think about it. it's a mechanical issue. Rev limiters are electronic devices that cut the ignition to prevent you from accelerating beyond a safe limit. There's nothing that can stop the motor from spinning faster when you downshift too early.

No worries Paul, I know you weren't! BUT...I have a question for you however..I don't do it often, usually when I am on a road I am unfamiliar with and riding too fast for my knowledge of said road, and need to ring down 3 gears in an effort not to "fly off"...I've hit my limiter on my 99 Gixxer6 on a down shift and it didn't grenade? Squirelled all about, which is what it's supposed to do, so am I missing part of the explanation, or am I just lucky that I still have my ballz in tact?

Also, How's your wrist and finger doing dude? You looked awful pissed off the last time I saw you. In the tech garage I think it was...geting trophies...we chatted for a few seconds and you looked like pain was running through you like water through a hose dude. I hope you are all good and will be ready to rock out soon brotha!!!See ya at the banquet right???

[ChR1s]

Originally posted by gixxer6
Ya got any tricky sites for the Yammy YZ426/450? huh? huh? huh? Don't hold out dude!!!

Just wait and watch what R7 does to his 450 once he gets bumped into Amateurs next season.

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by ChR1s
Just wait and watch what R7 does to his 450 once he gets bumped into Amateurs next season.

naaah, I take matters in to my own hands..and his old 426, which is my new 426, is being prepped for SPEEEEED!! Weeeeee!!! Speeeeed!!! Wooo Hoooo!!!!! Srry..got caried away there..but yah, Tully is a good cat, and I'm doing everything in my power to make the thing go fassst! Honestly, the Wood boyz aren't running anything special on their 450 honda's. Cam, iridium plug, big brakes, exhaust, the usual. Nothing fancy at all. Got that right from the horses mouth. Which in all reality is incredibly depressing and amazing all at the same time! Ricky Ducette I believe, goes real fast on his 426 too. oh man..all this bench racing..I need an adrenaline fix!!! Anyone like sky-diving?
Base-jumping?

[ChR1s]

Originally posted by gixxer6
Anyone like sky-diving?

Didn't someone around here just take up flying?

I hear the fast supermoto guys run the ice races in Sturbridge, but that's some months away.

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by ChR1s
Didn't someone around here just take up flying?

I hear the fast supermoto guys run the ice races in Sturbridge, but that's some months away.

Yah...well..that'd be AWESOME...IF I were one of the afore mentioned fast guys...however, I am not, and have no desire to get run down by some dude because I SNAFU'd and am laying on te ground in a cold icy pile! In other words..I suck on the ice! Anywhere else that has ice races that do not involve the fastest cat's out there? maybe an amateur type sanctioning???

[Paul_E_D]

What do you mean "I hit the limiter"? that the ignition cut out?

As far as I know, (and I have blown 2-3 motors this way) the ignition does not cut out under back torque. Even if it did, your still not slowing the over rev, which is dictated by wheel speed and gear selection, not ignition firing.

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
What do you mean "I hit the limiter"? that the ignition cut out?

As far as I know, (and I have blown 2-3 motors this way) the ignition does not cut out under back torque. Even if it did, your still not slowing the over rev, which is dictated by wheel speed and gear selection, not ignition firing.

Yah, the ignition cut out, it bounced off the limiter like it does on the way up to speed. Most of the time when I power shift down, the rear hops, as it is trying to keep up, but ultimately cannot. Is that a better explanation bro? Sorry for the vagueness last time dude. ISS ALLL GOOOOOD!!!!!!!! Oh man..is it 5:30 yet guy's? Hell, lie to me and tell me it is!

[Idiotboy]

Heath, if you don't mind my asking, what do you plan to do to that 426 motor? I learned a few things the hard way with mine,Chris has seen the box of bent/broken parts,and it's not pretty.There are a few areas that need to be adressed depending on what you're planning.If you can learn from my fuckups, cool.

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by Idiotboy
Heath, if you don't mind my asking, what do you plan to do to that 426 motor? I learned a few things the hard way with mine,Chris has seen the box of bent/broken parts,and it's not pretty.There are a few areas that need to be adressed depending on what you're planning.If you can learn from my fuckups, cool.

You'll have a PM soon bro!

Nothing major..they blow up if you pimp em too much!

[SWEET_Z]

Well if you go a gear (or 3) too low the back tire slides most of the time before the engine blows, right? The same happens if you drop the clutch after a down shift without matching revs. I'm guessing the engine blows when the frictional force from the tire on the road is greater than the force required to damage the weakest engine component.

The slipper clutch is designed to prevents both tire lock and and blown engines. Some people don't care for them because (like me) they like to use engine braking on the street. You still get some engine braking effect but it would be much less. As far as tire wear I don't think it'd make a big difference unless you regularly lock your tire up while downshifting.

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by SWEET_Z
Well if you go a gear (or 3) too low the back tire slides most of the time before the engine blows, right? The same happens if you drop the clutch after a down shift without matching revs. I'm guessing the engine blows when the frictional force from the tire on the road is greater than the force required to damage the weakest engine component.

The slipper clutch is designed to prevents both tire lock and and blown engines. Some people don't care for them because (like me) they like to use engine braking on the street. You still get some engine braking effect but it would be much less. As far as tire wear I don't think it'd make a big difference unless you regularly lock your tire up while downshifting.

LOCK IT..SLIDE IT...BACK IT INNNNN!!!!!!!!! WOO HOOO!!!