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street riding & tire race compounds

  1. #1
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Exclamation street riding & tire race compounds

    Using race compound tires on the street!

    This is serious stuff – your well being could depend upon it!

    Unfortunately over the years I have heard the following comment far too often,”I put race compound tires on my street bike for more traction”

    I do not profess to be a tire expert and I am not connected with any tire supplier..... But I do have many years of involvement with race tracks and street riding.

    In the hope to educate/help even a few folk I pass on a little of my self acclaimed wisdom concerning the use race compound DOT tires on the street

    Using race compound DOT tires <even soft> on the street gives you significantly LESS grip/traction than street optimized compounds…. As the air/road temp drops the lack of traction compounds.

    So what’s the different between race compounds and street compounds, why the big delta in potential grip level….?

    Basically it's pretty simple... heat builts up in tires by the flexing of the tire sidewalls/carcass -flexing mainly occurs during acceleration and braking (this is how you get heat into tires-the harder and more consistent the acceleration and braking the quicker and higher the heat build up). Obviously acceleration and braking occurs more often on a race track.
    All Race tire compounds have a narrow range of optimum operating temperature and need to withstand more heat. Therefore the optimum temp range for maximum grip/traction for race tires (typically around 170oF) is much higher then with street compounds… Changing tire pressures (allowing more or less flex) for a given rider after a few “hot” laps looking for the 170oF is one way racers find the optimum grip level.
    On the other hand street tire compounds are optimized for max grip level well below race compounds and reach optimum temperature quickly and designed to maintain that temp.

    Now use “race” compound tires on the street and it’s very unlikely at ANY time they will get even near their optimum grip level and NEVER stay there.
    Spirited street riding, race compound, and anything except the hottest of days (surface temp over100oF) is just asking for trouble… Now normal riding on a cool or wet day/night just amplifies the lack of traction (as compares the street optimized tires).
    Note: even soft compound race tires working temp is well above street compound tires.

    Concerning track day riding
    This is not to say you can’t use street compounds on track days, at least initially. As your performance level increases the tire compound will “melt” quicker and then go well beyond their optimum grip ability.

    Many tire manufacturers now make track/street tire compounds, while a bit of a compromise for both track and street- the design realizes the typically fast(est) track day rider is not loading the tires the same way a racer does.
    These are the tires of choice of many track day attendees once their performance level exceeds street tires (after quite a few track days). Obviously the grip level for the street is also compromised a little and caution on those far too many cool damp days needs to take this into account.

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  2. #2
    thrilled brady's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    a good reminder, thanks Graham

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    '02 SV650 street|woods|race LRRS #128

  3. #3
    Expatriated to Seoul spicy's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    aye. sport touring for the win.

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    Angry Gumball RandyO's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    I've also heard that race tires have a limited # of heat cycles before they are toast as well, and that even if you do get your race compound up to temp with takeoffs , they could be dangerous for that reason ???

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    RandyO
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  5. #5
    Bikeless in Blackstone The Snowman's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    OK then, is there a tire out there that is a balance for riding both street and track?

    I purchased a set of Pirelli DCIII last season and they were awesome on the track. I haven't really pushed it on the street (because you really shouldn't) and they seem to be fine.

    Before I rode the CBR on the track last year, I was riding on Avon Azaro tires, which are more of a sport-touring tire and those were incredible on the street. AND the bonus was that I got over 13,000 miles out of them.

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  6. #6
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by 97BladeRider View Post
    OK then, is there a tire out there that is a balance for riding both street and track?

    I purchased a set of Pirelli DCIII last season
    Ya just answered yer own question


    Randy, Heat Cycles don't affect the grip of a race tire nearly as much as it used to, ESPECIALLY when you're not getting it fully up to operating temp, which is damn near impossible on just about any public road you can think of within a two hour drive from central New England.... they're just not twisty enough for long enough.

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  7. #7
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    i used to run race compound on the street occasionally when my bike did street and track, but i was in AZ and i really only did it in the summer. its probably the only time/place you could get away with it since asphalt temps are generally at least 150 degrees by 8am.

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  8. #8
    Bikeless in Blackstone The Snowman's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    I think that when my DCIIIs wear, I'll go back to sport touring tires on the CBR. We just got a set of Pirelli Diable Stradas on Annalisa's F3 and they seemed to ride just like my old Azaros. Should be a good ride.

    However, the SV will run exclusively on DCIIIs, since they work so well at the track.

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  9. #9
    thrilled brady's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by 97BladeRider View Post
    However, the SV will run exclusively on DCIIIs, since they work so well at the track.
    That's the thing, no 160 DCIII's for SV's unless you run a wider rear wheel for the 180.

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    '02 SV650 street|woods|race LRRS #128

  10. #10
    Infected Slyder's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    I see a lot of people running race compound on the street. Usually you can't tell them any different...people keep doing it. Oh their awesome blah blah. When I bought my 94 gixxer 750 in 1996 it came with D204GP tires. Wow did they suck...even after riding for an hour+.

    Currently I'm a fan of the BT002RS tires. They are meant for either or, trackday or street. I've not used them for a trackday, I have yet to even do a trackday. But on the street when they come up to temp...I have all I can do to break them lose. Unfortunately on the down side...the tread depth isn't much from the start. On the upside you get a kickass tire for much less than Pirellis or the Michelins.

    But as was mentioned, race compound is for just that.

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  11. #11
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by brady View Post
    That's the thing, no 160 DCIII's for SV's unless you run a wider rear wheel for the 180.
    The Bridgestone BT016 comes in a 160, and is also a multi compound tire.

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  12. #12
    Infected Slyder's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    The Bridgestone BT016 comes in a 160, and is also a multi compound tire.
    And is still cheaper, if you know where to look. I did consider changing to the 16's, have heard lots of good and no bad about them. I bet they last a good bit longer than the 002's also. Either way I know some OE 'stones got bad reps, 12's and 14's, probably some others...but the 16's and 002's kick some ass

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  13. #13
    Where is my fast? GixerJockey's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by 97BladeRider View Post
    However, the SV will run exclusively on DCIIIs, since they work so well at the track.


    Not unless it's got a 5.5" rear wheel it wont.



    You'll be running Diablo or Dragon Super Corsas on that bad ride...

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  14. #14

    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    The Bridgestone BT016 comes in a 160, and is also a multi compound tire.
    Just a "heads up" for those wanting Bridgestone tires and a Trackday.

    Package price is $450 for a set of 120/160 or 120/180.

    $470 for 120/190 and a trackday.

    BT-016 link:

    http://www.motorcycle-karttires.com/bt-016.pdf

    NOTE: This price includes mounting and balancing at our NH events.

    A similar deal will be coming for Pirelli tires... which can be mounted at our NJ events.

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    Pirelli Track Tires - www.goMTAG.com


  15. #15
    Where is my fast? GixerJockey's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    The Bridgestone BT016 comes in a 160, and is also a multi compound tire.
    Yea... But unfortunately, it's still a Bridgestone...

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  16. #16

    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Personally, I think any of the top tire manufacturers make a product far beyond us.


    http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/1/958/...-Supplier.aspx

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    Pirelli Track Tires - www.goMTAG.com


  17. #17
    Bikeless in Blackstone The Snowman's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by brady View Post
    That's the thing, no 160 DCIII's for SV's unless you run a wider rear wheel for the 180.
    Oh crap, that's right.

    C'mon Pirelli, get with it....

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  18. #18
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post
    Yea... But unfortunately, it's still a Bridgestone...
    You're right...obviously the largest tire manufacturer in the world doesn't have the resources to design a better tire than anyone else...

    I agree with Tony though, confidence is everything, I doubt more than a handful of people on this site could outride any manufacturer's supersport tires.

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  19. #19
    Where is my fast? GixerJockey's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post

    I agree with Tony though, confidence is everything, I doubt more than a handful of people on this site could outride any manufacturer's supersport tires.
    It's funny how even I, working in the motorcycle industry, and knowing quite a bit more about modern tires than the average motorcycle consumer... still have brand loyalties that make me jump all over your original post to trash Bridgestone. (full well knowing that I'll never out ride the the BT-002 or the BT-016, or ANY of their race tires)


    But I guess I'll never know for absolutely sure...






































    Since I'm not mounting any of those JUNK-ASS Bridgestone tires on my bike!!!

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  20. #20
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post
    It's funny how even I, working in the motorcycle industry, and knowing quite a bit more about modern tires than the average motorcycle consumer... still have brand loyalties that make me jump all over your original post to trash Bridgestone. (full well knowing that I'll never out ride the the BT-002 or the BT-016, or ANY of their race tires)


    But I guess I'll never know for absolutely sure...



    Since I'm not mounting any of those JUNK-ASS Bridgestone tires on my bike!!!
    I recall someone asking my opinion on tires last season, so I must know more about modern tires than the average motorcycle consumer too.

    Besides, you're suggesting Pirelli's because you get a good deal on them from BM, and I'm a Bridgestone fan because I get a good deal from S&C. Basically, our potentially biased opinions cancel each other out.

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  21. #21
    Where is my fast? GixerJockey's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
    I recall someone asking my opinion on tires last season, so I must know more about modern tires than the average motorcycle consumer too.
    Indeed, you do. Do you miss the motorcycle industry yet?


    Didn't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz
    Besides, you're suggesting Pirelli's because you get a good deal on them from BM, and I'm a Bridgestone fan because I get a good deal from S&C. Basically, our potentially biased opinions cancel each other out.
    Yea... Except there's Dunlops on my SV and Michelins on my GSX-R...


    But when I wear out the Dunlops on the SV. They will be replaced with Pirellis.


    And when the Pilot Powers dry rot off the GSX-R...



    (I just figured I'd beat you too it. )

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  22. #22
    Is this thing on? Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post
    Indeed, you do. Do you miss the motorcycle industry yet?

    Didn't think so.
    Yea... Except there's Dunlops on my SV and Michelins on my GSX-R...

    But when I wear out the Dunlops on the SV. They will be replaced with Pirellis.

    And when the Pilot Powers dry rot off the GSX-R...

    (I just figured I'd beat you too it. )
    You know, I stopped by the store today, saw a ton of bikes in the lot, ran into some of my old customers, BSed for awhile, and it was cool. I started missing the job...until I realized I could leave whenever I wanted.

    And yeah, it's less fun when you do it first, but...I could probably get a set of labels for you if you wanna just send those Pilots back to PU, they probably wouldn't even notice you mounted them.

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  23. #23
    Infected Slyder's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by GixerJockey View Post

    Since I'm not mounting any of those JUNK-ASS Bridgestone tires on my bike!!!
    Seeing as in I am the average street rider, never been on a track, etc...care to enlighten us average no-bodies why they are junk ass?

    Care to sell me a set of the pirelli's at, oh...your cost, 120/70, 190/55r so I can mount them up when the 002's are shot?

    I'll give them a fair unbiased opinion. I went with the 002's because of cost and for the life of me, I couldn't find anyone that said "they sucked" even without an explanation. Well, until now

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  24. #24
    Posting Freak xsiliconkid's Avatar
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Bridgestone's version that work both street and trackdays.
    http://www.motorcycle-karttires.com/bt-016.pdf

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    Last edited by xsiliconkid; 04-06-09 at 10:00 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Re: street riding & tire race compounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    Seeing as in I am the average street rider, never been on a track, etc...care to enlighten us average no-bodies why they are junk ass?

    Care to sell me a set of the pirelli's at, oh...your cost, 120/70, 190/55r so I can mount them up when the 002's are shot?

    I'll give them a fair unbiased opinion. I went with the 002's because of cost and for the life of me, I couldn't find anyone that said "they sucked" even without an explanation. Well, until now
    It's called a sense of humor. You should get one, they're great!!

    Like many have said. Modern tires are much of a muchness for most riders. Ride what gives you the most bang for the buck for your type of riding.

    I call Bridgestones junk tires because I personally had two big crashes on them in my last year of racing. Different tires and a few years ago. I also got bridgestones on my new GSXR right from the factory. I did 10 miles and took them off and sold them. I personally don't like them. 2 other I know said the same thing about the OEM gixxer tires. I didn't feel confident in them for some reason. Again, they are a different compound from the ones commercially available.

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