Monday's Trackday!

[DaSarge]

Originally posted by Feirax
Yeah the walking chimney is also know as Peter.. He was telling me about Gordon going up onto the curb and almost going off the corner of the track on turn 3 (since I'd just about done the same thing..)


-F

Haha yea Peter and I did turn 3/10 together....yea he is a walking chimney. Good guy.

[scootertrash]

Originally posted by Feirax

...
He was telling me about Gordon going up onto the curb and almost going off the corner of the track on turn 3 (since I'd just about done the same thing..)


-F

I had a lot of problems with turn 3. Of the 100 laps (or so) that I did, I hit it right about 5 times and it felt great. The other times I went into it too slow and just putted around it, or I got nervous and locked my arms up which made me go too wide. For me, it's not a technical problem...it is just the corner I fear the most, so I get nervous and tend to screw it up.
Maybe my fear had something to do with seeing Spencer staring at me each time I went into the turn, with a vulture sort of look on his face...

[Feirax]

Originally posted by scootertrash
I had a lot of problems with turn 3. Of the 100 laps (or so) that I did, I hit it right about 5 times and it felt great. The other times I went into it too slow and just putted around it, or I got nervous and locked my arms up which made me go too wide. For me, it's not a technical problem...it is just the corner I fear the most, so I get nervous and tend to screw it up.
Maybe my fear had something to do with seeing Spencer staring at me each time I went into the turn, with a vulture sort of look on his face...

Haha, don't feel bad... you weren't the only one.. Peter was over there laughing at me.. Especially the one time when I didn't match revs close enough downshifting into first and my rear started squirming. I'm pretty sure Spence saw that.. hehe My bike felt upset each time it hit that uneven pavement in turn three.. and if I didn't manage to get on the throttle going into the turn I was afraid the drive lash would be the end of me if I got back on it.. instead i'd tend to run wide.. I ended up asking the instructor for help (after harassment by Peter), stayed in second gear, turned at the marker cone, and stayed on the gas the whole way through. Ended up holding a tighter line avoiding the bumpier pavement and felt much better going through there afterwards. Still had trouble with that corner especially when I had people in front of me.. If I had to shift down to first the bike was real jerky at on/off throttle and made me nervous.. Was such a blast though.. and I hope I can eventually scrape together enough dough to do another one.

-F

[DaSarge]

Originally posted by scootertrash
Maybe my fear had something to do with seeing Spencer staring at me each time I went into the turn, with a vulture sort of look on his face...

Suuuuuuuure blame me

[Ken C]

Personally, I had a great time. I was warm and dry and put in a few long stints on the track without feeling the least bit exhausted.

The most fun came from the experience I gained riding close to the edge of traction and at times OVER the edge without crashing. I learned that race compound 208s are brick-like when cold and it takes 6 laps of relative tip-toeing to get heat into them (riders on STREET tires had a real noticable advantage with the quick heat up and Silica in their compounds).

After the 208s warmed they would start to hook up pretty well and I could move right along. I practiced being very smooth and relaxed in every corner, waiting for the bike to slide, which it did on several occasions. The most exciting was a 2 wheel drift in turn 11. I was pleased that I stayed relaxed and it hooked up easily.

I never expected to have so much fun.

It was nice seeing the NESR crew. And I'm glad you were happy with the event. If only we could do something about the weather.

-------------------------
Ken C.

www.kencondon.com

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by scootertrash
I had a lot of problems with turn 3. Of the 100 laps (or so) that I did, I hit it right about 5 times and it felt great. The other times I went into it too slow and just putted around it, or I got nervous and locked my arms up which made me go too wide. For me, it's not a technical problem...it is just the corner I fear the most, so I get nervous and tend to screw it up.
Maybe my fear had something to do with seeing Spencer staring at me each time I went into the turn, with a vulture sort of look on his face...

You're the one who taught me to go through 3.

Stay in the gas till the first cone. Grab a whole lotta front brake. Stomp the rear brake. Let off rear brake to control slide. You should be half way down the cones now. Grab a lower gear and let out the clutch. When the last cone goes by, get off the seat, lower the knee, look up the hill, trail out'ta the brakes and roll on the throttle.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU CAHSE A 250cc machine THROUGH THIS CORNER WHILE ON A 600cc! (personal experience)

[bemused]

Originally posted by legalspeed
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU CAHSE A 250cc machine THROUGH THIS CORNER WHILE ON A 600cc! (personal experience)

[TTD]

I'm hopeful that the tips for getting throgh Turn 3 posted 2 up were kidding?

If not, I see I have to do more "instruction" at the May event.




On a related note...

The problem I see with most track day riders is that they shift too much. If you're struggling with a corner or don't feel smooth, then try grabbing at least one less downshift prior to the corner.

For a 600cc street bike, you should be able to get around the track quite nicely with 2 or 3 shifts (not counting the front straight).

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by 35racer
I'm hopeful that the tips for getting throgh Turn 3 posted 2 up were kidding?

If not, I see I have to do more "instruction" at the May event.

I am
A.) Not kidding
B.) always open to instruction
C.) in possesion of a few trophies using said technique.

So tell me, how does one take turn 3 in competition?

[Stoneman]

FWIW-sliding it into or outta T-3 is a great way to find yourself on the ground, usually via high side. No, I'm not much of a racer. But I've watched MANY people - including the 'big guns' - go through that turn over & over & over again. Yeah, they whip around it like it's nothing. But sliding around T-3 is generally NOT a good idea...

Just don't want any trackdayers getting the wrong idea...

[TTD]

First off, I don't bother with the rear brake... especially since the front brake basically lifts the rear off the ground anyway.

Turn 3 is no different than any other, except I don't trail brake quite as far into the corner as there are pavement changes and bumps that come into play.

Otherwise, the goal is to brake as late as you possibly can... ensuring that you are left with enough time to complete your downshifts and make your turn in.

Getting your body into position for the corner while braking, will allow you to carry more speed. In other words, make your body movements while the bike is straight up and down and braking at high speed.

If you wait till the very end of your braking to get off the seat, the bike is going slower and your movements have a greater effect on the bike.

Again... this is all "riding the edge" type stuff that is used for racing. While the concept is the same for Track Days, you should not be trail braking quite so much, so you have more leeway in when you get off the seat for the corner.

[Stoneman]

Okay, good. Now I gotta work on lifting the front wheel and crossing it up a bit (while leaned over, of course) going around T-4 AND up over the hill...

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by 35racer

If you wait till the very end of your braking to get off the seat, the bike is going slower and your movements have a greater effect on the bike.

I am an amateure. Thanks. Is that why the Woods sit cock-eyed braking into 1? I've often wondered about that. My thought WAS that shifting position under heavy braking would produce a goofy off balance situation.

Can you explain 9-10-11 for me (race conditions)? I don't have a confident plan for that part yet. Last Sat. the bike skipped under full suspension compression over the transition from 10-11. It opened my eyes but not much else.

And another thing, I pick cones for braking markers. I've noticed on occaision that they move!
Any suggestions?

[TTD]

Originally posted by legalspeed
I am an amateure. Thanks. Is that why the Woods sit cock-eyed braking into 1? I've often wondered about that. My thought WAS that shifting position under heavy braking would produce a goofy off balance situation.

Can you explain 9-10-11 for me (race conditions)? I don't have a confident plan for that part yet. Last Sat. the bike skipped under full suspension compression over the transition from 10-11. It opened my eyes but not much else.

And another thing, I pick cones for braking markers. I've noticed on occaision that they move!
Any suggestions?

Yes... that is why they are off centered while braking. The trick is to remember that you really only want to get the crack of your ass onto the top edge of the seat. In other words, if you're taking a right corner, the crack should be on the top right of the seat.

From this position, you simply stick your knee out and countersteer hard until it hits the ground... no more body movement.

As for 9/10/11... that is a bigger topic. As for bottoming your suspension, the usual cause is that you did not open up the throttle while you were coming down the hill. You MUST already be on the gas when you get to the bottom of 10!

As for cones, they should NOT move. There are marks on the pavement to ensure they don't. Tell someone if they are off. Having said that, marks in the pavement or along the edge of the track are preferred for the very reason you stated.

[Stoneman]

Wow! Good pointers, Tony! You & me? Yeah, we gotta sit and talk...

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by 35racer


Getting your body into position for the corner while braking, will allow you to carry more speed. In other words, make your body movements while the bike is straight up and down and braking at high speed.

If you wait till the very end of your braking to get off the seat, the bike is going slower and your movements have a greater effect on the bike.

I remember you saying that to us on monday Tony. So of course I went out and tried it. I was pleasantly surprised of how stable the bike was under braking. Thanks for the tip!

[brewmaster]

Man, you guy's are getting me worked up for May! I signed up and I promise to give you plent of room to get around the "slow guy" on the monster. Sounds like you guy's will be teachin' me alot. Keep the corner discussions coming it will help me prepare.

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by 35racer
Yes... that is why they are off centered while braking. The trick is to remember that you really only want to get the crack of your ass onto the top edge of the seat. In other words, if you're taking a right corner, the crack should be on the top right of the seat.

From this position, you simply stick your knee out and countersteer hard until it hits the ground... no more body movement.

As for 9/10/11... that is a bigger topic. As for bottoming your suspension, the usual cause is that you did not open up the throttle while you were coming down the hill. You MUST already be on the gas when you get to the bottom of 10!

As for cones, they should NOT move. There are marks on the pavement to ensure they don't. Tell someone if they are off. Having said that, marks in the pavement or along the edge of the track are preferred for the very reason you stated.

Rider position:
I'll try that.

Suspension:
I was lazing out of the throttle through 10- early morning practice. You are correct! Knowing the reason inspires confidence.

Braking markers:
I had a beautiful line into 6 last year, then the motard race came along and messed me all up. I'll look for pavement marks once I find myself again.

Thanks Tony!!

[Ken C]

Another benefit of moving your body into position before the turn is that it aids in turn-in.

By moving your body to the inside, you encourage the bike to move that way. Coming into turn 3, I brake, move my cheek to the right and actually counter steer to keep the bike from turning in too early ( press slightly on the left bar to keep it going straight). When it's time to turn in, I release the outside grip pressure and presto, the bike falls into the turn. I then press on the inside grip to get it turned in further/quicker. It all happens very quickly. I learned this technique from Lee Parks.

[legalspeed]

That sounds way cool. I'm going to try it.