Doc's Garage tear down/ rebuild thread.

[BostonSVkid]

Since it looks like that area slopes down the footings have to step down to keep the 48" below grade and that back area should be (like the drawings shows) 48" below the lowest grade behind the garage. Slabs are grade are a totally different story but this obviously is not that.

[Kitt]

doc I have 100lb propane tank in springfield... dunno if I'm going to need it/use it in addison yet.

I can help build walls though... possible bike night attendee for tomorrow.

[Doc]

Since it looks like that area slopes down the footings have to step down to keep the 48" below grade and that back area should be (like the drawings shows) 48" below the lowest grade behind the garage. Slabs are grade are a totally different story but this obviously is not that.

So are you saying they should have poured a slab and then built the block walls on it?

What is the fix? Fill the middle part with cement?

[Trouble]

So are you saying they should have poured a slab and then built the block walls on it?

They could have poured a thickened slab and built the walls on it. That system still relies on having excellent drainage around the entire building or frost will heave the slab. By having a monolithic slab the building would all heave as one structure and you'd end up with an out of level building. Not the end of the world with a garage. If one corner of your footings heave you may run into issues with the building become wracked and having structural issues.

What is the fix? Fill the middle part with cement?

Compacted clean fill (dirt or stone) is fine. It doesn't need to be concrete.

[catamount]

So are you saying they should have poured a slab and then built the block walls on it?

No, he is saying that at the lowest part of your footing, the footing needed to go 48" down from grade to get below the frost line.


Otherwise, you're going to to end up with another leaning-tower-of-Pisa.

[Doc]

No, he is saying that at the lowest part of your footing, the footing needed to go 48" down from grade to get below the frost line.


Otherwise, you're going to to end up with another leaning-tower-of-Pisa.

So if it is 48" below on 1 side of the footing that won't work?

So to be clear. Will filling the part in the middle with clean fill fix this alone?

I see where frost would be an issue on the uncovered side... and I was thinking the block wall was going to be 3 sided (not 2).

I have a call out to the contractor.

[Trouble]

In your situation, no, 48" of coverage on one side of the wall will not work. You will still have one side of the footing that has less than adequate coverage and the frost will drive down into the soil from that side potentially heaving the foundation.



As I see it, the correction to this foundation is:

The block wall needs to be 3 sided.

The area around and within the foundation needs to be filled with clean, compacted fill to a depth of 4' above the bottom of the footing.


As Justin may or may not have intentionally eluded to, I'd confirm all of this with your building inspector. Address your concerns to him/her as a concerned customer. The building inspector is there to help you.

[Doc]

Or the inspector will say. "sorry you can't build it there..."

[catamount]

Trouble, you didn't mention anything about the 1' deep footers. Shouldn't the footers go 48" below grade?

Or the inspector will say. "sorry you can't build it there..."

You have a permit to build it in the grandfathered location... right?

[BostonSVkid]

You have a sloped piece of property. Code requires that ALL footings be a minimum of 48" below grade to be below the frost level in this area of the country.

So legally, the footings on your garage have to step down OR be at the same grade with the lowest point being 48" below.

Some points will be taller than 48" but this is eaier sometimes because you dont have to step your footings.

[BostonSVkid]

Trouble, you didn't mention anything about the 1' deep footers. Shouldn't the footers go 48" below grade?



You have a permit to build it in the grandfathered location... right?

I think you are confused. Thickness of the footings has nothing to do with depth.

The footings at the front (near the driveway) look to be 3 or so feet below grade but this is still not deep enough.

[BostonSVkid]

Trouble, you didn't mention anything about the 1' deep footers. Shouldn't the footers go 48" below grade?



You have a permit to build it in the grandfathered location... right?

Oh and grandfathering doesnt mean shit when you knock down the whole structure. Typically you need to leave 75% of the floor and 1 wall.

[catamount]

I think you are confused.

I probably am! But I am curious about this.

The footings at the front (near the driveway) look to be 3 or so feet below grade but this is still not deep enough.

Yea, at the front of the garage they look to be close. BUT I'm talking about the footers on the left side of this photo. The bottom of them seems to be at about the same elevation as grade.

I don't see how could possibly be okay.

[Trouble]

You're right, that wall isn't OK. But in this structure that wall has the same amount of frost coverage as the other walls because the enclosed space isn't conditioned. As I see it the builder took a shortcut.

[BostonSVkid]

Oh its not okay unless they back fill that up to 48" but if DOC wants a crawl space and a door back there the footings need to go down another 48"

FYI Doc I would serously call your builder and building inspector and confirm what they are doing is legal.

Also, did you pull the permit for the builder? Did the builder pull the permit? Is it posted in yourfront window ? Or does the builder "have" the permit?

I do construction for my job and I have a civil engineering degree. Ultimately will anything ever happen to your new garage? Probably not but if they dont build it to code and the inspector shows up he may say you cant EVER use it and you are stuck!

[BostonSVkid]

Call Mike Holmes!!

HAHA JK!

[Trouble]

It's an auxilary structure and I don't believe you need a certificate of occupancy for it in Burlington. The building inspector may never come by and review this building unless requested. Doc, I think you're right to start by questioning the builder. You'd be better off calling in the inspector at this stage of the game (if you need to) than waiting until the walls are up. Then it'll be easier to see if dimensions have changed vs. what was existing. Just in case there was a clerical error...

[Doc]

Oh its not okay unless they back fill that up to 48" but if DOC wants a crawl space and a door back there the footings need to go down another 48"

FYI Doc I would serously call your builder and building inspector and confirm what they are doing is legal.

Also, did you pull the permit for the builder? Did the builder pull the permit? Is it posted in yourfront window ? Or does the builder "have" the permit?

I do construction for my job and I have a civil engineering degree. Ultimately will anything ever happen to your new garage? Probably not but if they dont build it to code and the inspector shows up he may say you cant EVER use it and you are stuck!

He pulled it and it is in the window.

[BostonSVkid]

I would be SHOCKED if the inspector passes this.

[yesterdayze]

yeah, Doc, I would not let them go any further until they fix that. Like everyone is saying, that needs to be a slab (not best way) or needs to go down 4 feet . They just poured that right on top of the ground there and unless both sides are getting built up to 48 inches that will just be a bad thing as the one side that is near the hill will probably not move while the other side will heave and you will end up back at square one. Concrete is cheap and if they screwed it up they need to be the ones fixing it.

The drawing you showed - which is a lot closer to correct then the pictures show - is that what was agreed on? Did you draw that or was that their rough up? If that was what was agreed on make them tear it out and try again. May take more time but last thing you want is to have to redo the whole thing 8 months down the road.

Oh and NO don't just have them fill in the middle. Trust me - from experience- you will just end up with a very wet, very shifty floor. The water will be coming up between where the middle meets the sides all the time and will eventually start cracking it.

[catamount]

Now aren't you glad I asked for pictures?



Sorry, I know this isn't funny. The contractor will have some sort of excuse for not wanting to correct it either and he'll make you feel like the 'bad guy' which will likely influence your relationship with him for the rest of the build.

I would ask the building inspector to come out so the inspector looks like the bad guy.

[obsolete]

Wouldn't the inspector have to come out either way?

[Doc]

Thanks for pointing this out fellas.

Pretty sure an inspector needs to inspect the foundation...

Waiting to hear the contractors excuse. I am hoping he is forgetting to tell me something or has some kind of plan. He already shortened the block wall, it was supposed to be a full wall on the open side but he is going to make it out of wood. (Contract says block wall)

This is someone that does alot of work in Burlington so I am hoping for the best.

[yesterdayze]

He already shortened the block wall, it was supposed to be a full wall on the open side but he is going to make it out of wood. (Contract says block wall)

WTF?!?! Dude, put your foot down. I'll come put mine down for you if you want lol. I'll bring bear :p

You don't want a wood wall where it should be concrete. That's just lame and don't even tell me 'oh, it's pressure treated, it will be fine....'

yeah.... if you like wicks.

[catamount]

+1

Typical bait-and-switch. No change order? Then the contract sticks!