Doc's Garage tear down/ rebuild thread.

[Doc]

Spoke with the contractor, dicussed the issue.

He doesn't deny that it isn't being done right. He says to do it right would be another $7000.

I knew going in that some things were going to be "Let's see what we can get away with" but this is not something I think I am comfortable with.

I had told my wife to tell him I wanted the 3 sided wall that was in the contract, yet the rebar was not placed and the footing is not prepped for it.

He said he is now doing a poured wall (and I am losing 6 inches of height because they didn't dig down at all and the garage will be too tall for the driveay if he doesn't) and will do the 3 sides if that is what I want (I am sure it is cheaper to make the wall out of wood but the contract says 3 sides so I am certainly going to stick to that.) but he thinks the inspector might have an issue with there being a foundation where there wasn't one since this is a garage REPAIR and not a REBUILD.

If it was a Rebuild he doubts the city would approve it since it is on the property line. (hence the "see what we can get away with" which I was ok with) and would need to be 10 feet off the line unless he got a variance and such.

I spoke to my Dad who is a career carpenter and he said he would come by to look. He said if the ground was good it shouldn't be a problem to poor a slab and then put the walls on top...

The contractor said he had to "think about it". My Dad is coming by tomorrow to have a look. I am not too worried YET...

[BostonSVkid]

If you dont want to do it let me. I will put my f'ing foot so far up his ass he will taste leather.

Typical small time contractor bullshit. I would fire his ass and report him to the BBB.

MOST building departments required an inspection of the rebar PRIOR to the pour not just pictures (unless they dont show). Do you have drawings from an architect or from the builder?

Doc if you want please send me this contract you signed and I will check it out. I write owner and subcontractor contracts (I am a Construction PM) all day.

I understand you are doing this as a RENO and not a full rebuild but any good inspector is going to see NEW block or foundation walls and know what was done here. This whole bait and switch shit is fucked up.

Now if you did it on your own thats one thing but a licensed contrator is pulling this shit??

[Trouble]

I think that $7k figure is way out of wack but I'd let it go. You won't gain anything by questioning it.

Glad to hear about the poured walls. Way better than block.

The framed wall may not be much less than the poured wall by the time you include siding, etc. Stick to your guns there.

Assuming the builder isn't going to change the footing location do everything you can to have good drainage around the foundation. Backfill with washed stone and put in a foundation perimeter drain that goes to daylight. Put the gutter back up on the garden side and direct a downspout away from the building. Have as much positive drainage away from the building as possible including the driveway side. Heaving occurs when the water below your foundation freezes and expands. Get the water away and you'll have less danger.

I'll be at bike night tomorrow if you want to chat.

[Trouble]

If you dont want to do it let me. I will put my f'ing foot so far up his ass he will taste leather.

Typical small time contractor bullshit. I would fire his ass and report him to the BBB.

MOST building departments required an inspection of the rebar PRIOR to the pour not just pictures (unless they dont show). Do you have drawings from an architect or from the builder?

Doc if you want please send me this contract you signed and I will check it out. I write owner and subcontractor contracts (I am a Construction PM) all day.

I understand you are doing this as a RENO and not a full rebuild but any good inspector is going to see NEW block or foundation walls and know what was done here. This whole bait and switch shit is fucked up.

Now if you did it on your own thats one thing but a licensed contrator is pulling this shit??

It sounds like the builder is trying to help out Doc by overlooking some other issues with the building. Pissing off the builder may leave him without a garage, period. Especially now that the "existing" building has been removed. No doubt the builder is cutting some corners but I'd tread lightly personally.

[catamount]

It sounds like the builder is trying to help out Doc by overlooking some other issues with the building. Pissing off the builder may leave him without a garage, period. Especially now that the "existing" building has been removed. No doubt the builder is cutting some corners but I'd tread lightly personally.

Agreed, there is a fine line here. Push too hard and this guy is gonna quit and take your deposit with him, moving on to a job with fewer headaches. This is exactly what I hate about dealing with contractors though... the "push and pull".

[MysteriousR1]

If you dont want to do it let me. I will put my f'ing foot so far up his ass he will taste leather.

Typical small time contractor bullshit. I would fire his ass and report him to the BBB.

Really, No really, I'd love to see that. I just love it when people come screaming and acting like a total asshole thinking its going to get them anywhere. I know what i'd tell ya....Expecially sence it sounds like Doc had a idea before hand that some corner cutting was at work to keep the price down. Were talking of a small garage here folks, not a multi-million dollar house. I am in no way saying that allows for hackmenship tho...

[BostonSVkid]

Really, No really, I'd love to see that. I just love it when people come screaming and acting like a total asshole thinking its going to get them anywhere. I know what i'd tell ya....Expecially sence it sounds like Doc had a idea before hand that some corner cutting was at work to keep the price down. Were talking of a small garage here folks, not a multi-million dollar house. I am in no way saying that allows for hackmenship tho...

Actually i didnt COME IN screaming. If you read my other 5 or 6 posts they are calm rational posts with advice. I was messing around on that part.

I would just talk to the builder about how he plans are "getting away" with this stuff when the inspector comes to inspect and finds new concrete walls/footings where no rebar inspection was completed.

Oh and I love how people with practical experience in this type of thing put in their 2 cents.

[Kitt]

This is what I got:

..blah blah blah...

Kitt will keep all home additions and garage build details off the webz...

...blah blah blah...

[MysteriousR1]

Oh and I love how people with practical experience in this type of thing put in their 2 cents.

I am a licensed and insured contractor.

I dont think it will have to get a inspection also...

[BostonSVkid]

I stand corrected. I can admit when I am wrong but I have experience going the other direction.

Why wouldnt it need an inspection?

Is it a VT thing?

All I am saying is get the answers from you contractor. I have seen this happen to family and friends. The building is done and unusable because it wasnt built right.

[Trouble]

It's an auxilary structure. I can't imagine it needs a Certificate of Occupancy. If it doesn't need a CO than what would tell the Building Inspector to come do an inspection?

Burlington is one of the few municipalities in Vermont that has much of any oversight over construction. Most towns if you fit into their zoning rules all you need is a rough set of plans to get a building permit. No elevations, sections,etc. Most places in Vermont builders are not required to meet code for single family residences let alone for a 220 square foot detached shed.

[Doc]

The contractor knows the inspector and works closely with the city. Certain things can be done and certain things can't.

All I am concerned about is that the Garage stays standing, square and level.

So what are my options?

1. 3 sided poured wall on exsiting footer with the best drainage job I can do and let it ride.

2. 2 1/4 poured walls, cut out the footer on the exposed side and place sauna tubes with about 1 foot sticking out and then pressure treated load bearing wall. This gives SOME coverage on the outside of the walls on 2 sides (Driveway and yard) and 1 side with sauna tubes and a pressure treated wall (that I would insulate). Plus drainage.

3. Pin the existing footer and poor a slab, then do the 3 "foundation" walls (Poured is better so go with poured) Plus drainage.

4. Rip out the footer and poor a new floating slab then the 3 "foundation" walls.

The garage is being built on a foundation to bring it up to grade with my driveway which is a good 4 feet higher than the grade at the back of the garage. I get the added benefit of having additional storage space beneath the garage.

It doesn't look like we will be digging 4 feet below grade because that would need additional permits and a application for a variance that would most likely not get approved.

I knew going in that we were trying to work the system a bit and this guy has done millions of dollars worth of work for the company my wife is CEO of. He works well with the city inspectors and knows what can and can't be done.

So out of the 4 listed options what would you do?

[Trouble]

I'm too lazy to type. I'll call you.

[The Crashing Tomato]

1. doesn't matter what you put above the footer ... the footer is at the wrong depth .... that said block and mortar CRACK ... poured concrete CRACKS. Don't spend good money after bad

2. Who put this option together?

3. You don't have the bank for this to be an option. plus you'd still have the possibility of it heaving and sweating and then and then and then

4. You don't have the bank for this to be an option. plus you'd still have the possibility of it heaving and sweating and then and then and then

5. Doc you're about as predictable as the weather.

6. It should matter to the guy that your wife's company spends millions at him. It's a black economy ......

7. Should have gone POST & BEAM ... the pillars would have gone deep enough and your in VT it's kind of fitting don't ya think.

8. your screwed

9. you could have paid me to do it

10. Just ask Obama for some relief money .....

[yesterdayze]

Oi.... this is a migraine thread....

You're def between a rock and hard place. On the one hand you want it done right, on the other there is no question it is actually a rebuild not a repair so in that the guy kinda has you by the balls. I know you said this guy has done millions of dollars of work for your wife's company but the more I read the more the word 'shady' pops into my head.

On your options, doing it right is your best bet and option 3 is closest but still, I would think with there only having been a little done so far it would be cheaper to tear out and start over then to underpin. Seems kinda silly to be supporting something that little to underpin it.

As for inspections Trouble, it varies. They typically still have to check any permitted structure to see if you complied with what you submitted. I lived in that area for 22 years and they always checked stuff. Sometimes they just do a drive by and if it looks good from the road they call it good. Other times you get someone anal with a measuring tape.... Either way it is gonna be a dead giveaway that you didn't just repair the thing so....

I'm sure it will work out Doc. Just no fun meantime :/

[vintage ex race]

I stand corrected. I can admit when I am wrong but I have experience going the other direction.

Why wouldnt it need an inspection?

Is it a VT thing?

All I am saying is get the answers from you contractor. I have seen this happen to family and friends. The building is done and unusable because it wasnt built right.

I am not sure if it needs to be inspected but, I don't believe Vt. has a mandated contractors license either. And I do know a lot of out laying towns don't require building permits. Kind of blew my mind when I was talking to a friend about this tower he built that was 8'x8'x47' with ladders inside to the top [his smoking room].

[Doc]

Going to do a monolithic slab with poured "retaining walls on 2 sides and Pressure treated wood wall on the exposed side. Going to do drainage tile around the outside perimeter and let it ride...

The ground is sand and drains well, I am happy with this. Thanks for the input fellas.

Retaining walls go up tomorrow, then the slab will be poured into and over the footers. I am losing some headroom in my storage space but I gain dryness.

[catamount]

Nice! Glad you got this figured out. So the footers are coming out?

[Doc]

Nice! Glad you got this figured out. So the footers are coming out?

Nope, gonna drill into them and epoxy rebar in there then do a wire mesh attached to that rebar. Fill the inside to over the footer. Basically option 3.

An architect friend explained this to me and my Dad agrees going with a slab is the lesser of all evils.

[catamount]

Ahh, nice! I still don't get how you can build a wall on top of a 12" deep footer but I'm a "layman"; I'll let you explain that one to me at VTBN!

[CEO]

Ugh, sorry about the contractor headaches, that's always a pain.

Looks like it's coming along though, maybe you can rival my picture/megapixel record

New trailer looks nice too

[AHAMAYs2]

...I'll let you explain that one to me at VTBN!

Doc showing up at Bike Night....... That's a good one

[yesterdayze]

Doc showing up at Bike Night....... That's a good one

I just talked to him on the phone and he says he will be there, so we all have to be on our best behavior. Parker, don't show up in the belly shirt again. Mark, no tire stands and I will try to resist knocking over the cruisers this time around.

[The Crashing Tomato]

I am curious. When can you post pics?

[Doc]

Will post as it happens. Call me Matt.