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Amateur Championship

  1. #1
    RSP Racing 535 Io-bot's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Amateur Championship

    Since we have a topic regarding Trophies for the NV guys I figured i would open up the dialog regarding the lack of an AM Championship within LRRS. I am posting an email i sent about 3 weeks ago to Tom and Wanda with some of the reasons as to why I think we should have one... so far Wanda let me know they have a few things on their plate and they will talk more about it and get back to me. I hope something comes of it for this year or for the riders coming up through the ranks for next year.

    Please feel free to chime in with your thoughts, ideas or suggestions. I am fully aware that some of the EX racers out there think that we AM's are a bunch of nobodies that deserve nothing more than a pad on the back. Some may think this way simply because they themselves never had the chance to compete for a championship as AM's, some might have others, more valid reason, lets hear them.

    Also, Ill just throw this out there before someone throws around "sand bagging" I personally did not bump to EX due to a multitude of reasons, financials, personal goals, being able to compete in EX, having finished last seasons with only the 10th fastest AM lap time, having bumped to AM mid season, missing 2 rounds after having a bad crash in T9 with Chris Dinoia and so on. Those are just some of MY reasons and every AM rider has his own reason for not bumping as soon as possible. Please take a second to look at the issue objectively while considering the bigger picture.

    ------------------------------------------

    My name is David K (AM 535 with RSP Racing) and I am writing in regards to, or lack there of an Amateur Championship recognition within the LRRS organization. I had the opportunity to speak with Eric Wood during the opening round in regards to this matter and he indicated to me that he is in full support of adopting an AM Championship Award. He also pointed me in your direction to see how we could possibly facilitate this. We spoke about a few general reasons as to why LRRS should adopt this already nationally standard practice amongst all other racing organizations and how it would be beneficial to our racing series as well as to the rider community.

    1. At the end of the year WERA, along with nearly every other racing series has a way to recognize the achievements of the Amateur riders. LRRS seems to be the only organization that calculates AM championship points throughout the year without recognizing that those points mean anything other than grid positions.

    2.The induction of an AM Championship would increase attendance even if the weather isn’t optimal. Fair weather riders have no incentive to “race” on a cold/rainy weekend under the current system as they have no championship to race for.

    3. Learning to race for points and giving the AM’s the opportunity to practice this race craft prior to bumping to the Expert Class is a very valuable skill to poses.

    4. Having AM Championships acknowledged would also bring more new faces to the banquet and further help the series grow. It gets rather redundant to see the same hand full of Experts claim the Championships at the end of the year. This gives very little, if any, incentive for a NV or AM rider to attend. With Eric Wood offering his time to help Wanda overcome any logistical hurdles in regards to the banquet and how to go about a quick AM Championship acknowledgement, I am sure it wouldn’t eat too much into the banquet schedule. In addition AM riders wouldn’t need microphone time, maybe an award and a group photo for series promotion.

    5. Given that the same hand full of Experts win the EX Championships; most racers within LRRS know that they have little to no chance of ever being acknowledged at the banquet. Giving them the opportunity to race for a meaningful championship against their friends and fellow counterparts is a great way to give back to the rider community. The racer to be is a lot more likely to join the sport if he knows there is a chance he could race for and even win a championship prior to being forced to bump to EX; where the costs to race increase significantly with very little reward for the every day racer.

    6. Last year an AM rider was stripped of the Pirelli Diablo Challenge 3rd place championship win simply because he was not an EX; no Amateur racers had ever be recognized for a championship at the banquet up to that point. Subsequently the 3rd place trophy was awarded to the 4th place finisher who met the expert criteria. That 3rd place AM rider was me, and I personally would like to see this change for all future riders coming up through the ranks or looking to join the sport.

    7. Lastly, with the points already being calculated within the AM classes; why not introduce an acknowledged championship for the racers that are devoting their time and hard earned money to partake in this series?

    Thank you for your time and consideration. If you would like to speak to me by phone feel free to call my cellphone number listed bellow or if you would like to speak in person I can make myself available upon request. I personally feel that this change is something that can greatly benefit our sport, give something back to the majority of the every day racers and in the end bring more racers to the series. If you have any questions please feel free to email or call me.

    Again, thank you.
    David K
    AM #535 – RSP Racing

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  2. #2
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    I'm not necessarily AGAINST having an Amateur championship, but I think "championship" is the wrong word. I'd be in favor of some sort of Amateur Achievement award(s), so long as the recipient(s) bump to expert the weekend after they became eligible to do so. Otherwise you're giving racers more incentive to cherry pick.

    I would definitely be in favor of seeing some different faces recognized at the banquet. This would certainly help with that.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 05-11-11 at 07:27 PM.
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  3. #3
    Lifer Danz19899's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    I like the Idea a lot. I do want ot get into racing in the next few years and pretty much having no shot in hell at ever winning a championship is kinda a buzz kill.

    I like it but will play off of Pete's idea. I say call it an amateur championship but whoever wins MUST bump to EX next season, that would pretty much eliminate sand bagging IMO

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  4. #4
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Danz19899 View Post
    I say call it an amateur championship but whoever wins MUST bump to EX next season, that would pretty much eliminate sand bagging IMO
    Must bump NEXT season? That wouldn't eliminate sand bagging one bit during the season though. You'd have Amateurs turning 13's by the end of the year. That's ridiculous. Bump when you're eligible or you're ineligible for the Amateur Achievement/championship/whatever you wanna call it and points earned in Expert can apply to your Amateur standings.

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 05-11-11 at 07:36 PM.
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  5. #5
    LRRS EX #99 Kitt's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    I think it's another step towards American Mediocrity!

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  6. #6
    Lifer Danz19899's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Just figured you wouldn't win said championship till the end of the season.

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  7. #7
    Your Father csmutty's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    If I was doing that well in AM I'd just bump.

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  8. #8
    Lifer Chippertheripper's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by csmutty View Post
    If I was doing that well in AM I'd just bump.
    This.

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  9. #9
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by csmutty View Post
    If I was doing that well in AM I'd just bump.
    I had a chance to win an AM "championship" and finish top 3 in 2 others. As well as moneyz for most AM point getting at the banquet. I bumped the last weekend of the year. I regret nothing, especially since if others didnt bump i wouldnt nearly be that close

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  10. #10

    Re: Amateur Championship

    I spent one year at each level before moving to expert and think it better prepared me to race against seasoned experts. I know it's not exactly the OPs topic... more addressing the move up immediately comments.

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  11. #11
    Lifetime Motorcyclist Woodcraft's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    I think it's good to recognize the Amatuers who put in the effort to improve and win races. If they want to "sandbag" for one season, I don't have a real problem with with that. Some guys want to get to expert ASAP, others want to be sure they are ready. Either choice is OK as long as you can run the times to belong there.

    Based on how the Novice advancement goes this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see an Amatuer index that is similar in the future. Something to the effect that once you run a certain time, you've got until the end of the year to bump out. Now, please note that this is just me talking and not LRRS....the decision will definitely be on them. However, I like the idea of time based advancement used in conjuntion with points. If we adopt a "championship" or "achievement" award, then letting people stay for the remainder of ONE year is good by me. They can go to Daytona and race the ROC as an Amatuer and then come back the next season as an expert.

    I've always been for making it a little tougher to be an expert. If you look at motocross, it takes some people years to get there. Some never make it. But, the quality of competition as a result is really good. If you up the ante a little bit to make it, you could almost have a mini-recognition at trophies to those who are making the step forward.

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  12. #12
    I've been here before. Mustang's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Well put Dave. I might lean towards Pete's post about wordsmithing the concept, but that's a minor detail. Whatever you call it, I don't really see how some type of recognition at the end of the season could hurt.

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  13. #13
    AMA wannabe lrrs699's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    two years ago there was a AM Achievement award, it was given out to the top 5 AMs (all classes considered not just MW) I was surprised nothing was given out this year.

    my personal goal when i started was to race with the big dogs and make the needed requirements/times and bump up asap.

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  14. #14
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitt View Post
    I think it's another step towards American Mediocrity!
    I for the first time ever agree with Kitt

    KB

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  15. #15
    RSP Racing 535 Io-bot's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by lrrs699 View Post

    my personal goal when i started was to race with the big dogs and make the needed requirements/times and bump up asap.
    and that's cool, that was your personal goal and you acheaved it. But that also means that your personal goal can't be pub on other people's shoulders and then expect then to live up to it (not saying you are, just a general statement).

    As far as American mediocrity... I think that's a silly argument, the current LRRS structure and culture is what makes AMs seem like a bunch of nobodies who are cherry picking and are pussy footing before they move up to the big boy super class. That in itself needs to change... There is more to racing then a number board.

    Also, in my email I presented a few other arguments FOR an AM championship, id like to hear from the people that think it would be a bad idea for any OTHER reason then emotional.

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  16. #16
    professional lurker burtonboarder23's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Since iv never set foot on the track and am slowly understanding all the classes and ranks and w/e else you want to call it. My pov is more from other sports. When i played regional and national level tournament paintball series, we had different divisions separating skill level. At the end of the season, the top 2 or 3 teams had to make the bump to the higher division, no way around it. It seems like the same thing could be put in place for something like the bump from AM to EX

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  17. #17
    RSP Racing 535 Io-bot's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Step one: recognize the AM championships
    Step two: figure out a structure to auto bump said "champions" and 2-4 place finishers.

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  18. #18
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by lrrs699 View Post
    two years ago there was a AM Achievement award, it was given out to the top 5 AMs (all classes considered not just MW) I was surprised nothing was given out this year.

    my personal goal when i started was to race with the big dogs and make the needed requirements/times and bump up asap.
    Yeah, I liked that. I say they bring that back and award it to the top 5 Amateurs that earn the most points and still bump to Expert when eligible.

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  19. #19
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    I've always been for making it a little tougher to be an expert. If you look at motocross, it takes some people years to get there. Some never make it. But, the quality of competition as a result is really good. If you up the ante a little bit to make it, you could almost have a mini-recognition at trophies to those who are making the step forward.
    One of the best days in racing I had was getting a reply back from "The Don" telling me I was go for yellow plates. I'm all for celebrating moving up.

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  20. #20
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    I've always been for making it a little tougher to be an expert. If you look at motocross, it takes some people years to get there. Some never make it. But, the quality of competition as a result is really good. If you up the ante a little bit to make it, you could almost have a mini-recognition at trophies to those who are making the step forward.
    Yeah. I don't want to take anything away from those who have struggled in AM or those that are at the back of the expert packs, but I also think it should be a little more challenging to get back the white plates.

    However on the flip side of the argument, I'm also for increasing the size of the Expert grids (especially in the Lightweight classes).

    I think the only way to do both is to increase overall attendance in the hopes that it will bring in some more talent, which I'm sure you can agree, LRRS is working on.

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  21. #21
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Yeah, I liked that. I say they bring that back and award it to the top 5 Amateurs that earn the most points and still bump to Expert when eligible.
    Yup I lost out on that cause I bumped. That sucked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
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  22. #22
    RSP Racing 535 Io-bot's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post

    I think the only way to do both is to increase overall attendance in the hopes that it will bring in some more talent, which I'm sure you can agree, LRRS is working on.
    I think this is the key... And giving more back to the riders (at no extra cost really) would help promote our sport.

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  23. #23
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Absolutely... but ya also gotta remember that it's a business and I'm sure the track makes peanuts on us if they're lucky.

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  24. #24
    You dont know slow... PainfullySlow's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    Here are my thoughts on this:

    I have always chased my times, first and foremost. I want to be the best/fastest that I can be. That said, It is also nice to win once in a while, eh?

    Now, I look at the top EX guys in the brackets I run (LWSB, LWGP, GTL) and have a very firm understanding that the odds say I will never be up in that group. I dont have the time, money, or sponsorship. Whether or not I have the talent yet remains to be seen. Even if I do, the other things arent likely to change any time soon.

    So, if I ever had dreams of winning something, it would likely have to be before moving up to EX. Logical, right? It really is that simple.

    I would love to go for a points victory in AM because, well, right now I am an AM. I dont turn the times required to make it to EX. Maybe I would feel differently if I were, but I am definitely not. Personally right now going for a points victory seems like a possibly attainable goal. Maybe it isnt, maybe I am lying to myself, and yes, it is meaningless to everyone else.

    Anyway, I can easily see both sides of the argument and I certainly wouldnt want anyone "cherry picking", but if I were that guy in 2nd place I would at least have someone in front of me to chase and hopefully improve my times =)

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  25. #25
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    Re: Amateur Championship

    I remember the year They gave the AM awards to the most total points earned. IE the people who entered the most races and spent the most $$$. A lot of fast good riders were left out because there was simply not enough classes to compete in. where the middleweight guys had like 6 races a weekend the ultralight and Ptwins guys had 3 at best.

    I just think the current Class structure is not set up for it. An Am championship just means everyone that was better then you has already bumped. And you "held out the longest" You can stay in AM as long as you like if you feel it will help your development as a racer. Just Don't expect to be recognized and rewarded for it.

    It would be different If maybe You were required to spend an entire season in AM.

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    Last edited by BLACK SQUIRREL; 05-13-11 at 10:21 AM.
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