Drain coolant for winter

[Jim]

I was gonna do mine, but my season isn't over. Still racing

[MarkMarine]

I was waiting for someone to say this.

I don't get why they are allowed to advertise something so patently false.

[CBR929RE]

I don't get why they are allowed to advertise something so patently false.

I'm gonna guess its probably the same reason Mobil can advertise stuff as synthetic when its dino based. They won a lawsuit saying they can do it.

[tsorfas]

I was gonna do mine, but my season isn't over. Still crashing

Fixed

[Kurlon]

Finally people are catching on to this. Btw, the claims they make about better cooling are BS. No coolant available has better cooling than water.

Er, not quite accurate. Water with an additive to reduce it's surface tension will perform more consistently, and typically measurably better than plain water in real world pumped circulation applications. On paper you're right, but theory doesn't account for pocketing and turbulence when assigning basic thermal capacity numbers for different materials.

[GixxerJosh]

Anyone have any luck or know anything about Evan's waterless coolants? I see the ad in the back of RoadRacing World Mag. Says it can be run on tracks or in series where there is a "NO Ethylene Glycol" rule http://www.evanscooling.com/

[Rambunctous]

I see a debate coming about water. Can the moniters switch this to the controversial section? This could get very damp in here.

[Kurlon]

I see a debate coming about water. Can the moniters switch this to the controversial section? This could get very damp in here.

Eh, what's wrong with a topic getting us hot and bothered every now and then, we all need to blow off some steam occasionally?

Only thing I know about Evan's stuff, not LRRS legal.

[MarkMarine]

Yep, I agree that an additive should be added to the DI water, but actually the primary reason you want to add something is to lubricate the water pump. DI water by itself is extremely harsh on pumps.
There are only a few compounds that work well in a cooling system, but the main ones are ethylene glycol, propylene glycol, water, and isopropyl alcohol. Every one of them, added to water, is a trade off in thermal transfer efficiency for freeze (and some boil) protection. Propylene glycol actually takes away horsepower, it is much harder to pump than water. Propylene glycol is almost always what is marketed in these "racing" coolants. Yes, it's better for your pump and seals, no, it's not more efficient, and yes they are charging you triple what it's worth.

I could talk about this for hours, my patents are actually on thermal transfer systems, and I even have one on a thermal transfer medium, abet for a different application than a vehicle (only freeze protection and maximum thermal efficiency)

[Kurlon]

Why do I have visions of radiators shooting flames out the overflow with an isopropyl alcohol based system on a bike? (Yeah, I know the temp should never reach the ignition point, but it's still amusing in my head.)

Can you share patent numbers? I'm a nerd, I like reading that stuff.

[MarkMarine]

Why do I have visions of radiators shooting flames out the overflow with an isopropyl alcohol based system on a bike? (Yeah, I know the temp should never reach the ignition point, but it's still amusing in my head.)

Can you share patent numbers? I'm a nerd, I like reading that stuff.

Sure, I'm in Colorado this week but when I get back I'll get em over.

The iso is insanely expensive. We spent a grand on getting enough to use for testing.

You can get an idea on what I was working on if your curious, the company is called Promethean Power Systems.

[Kurlon]

For some reason that company name is familiar... were you working with Ben and Jerry's at one point when they were exploring alternative refrigeration systems?

[MarkMarine]

For some reason that company name is familiar... were you working with Ben and Jerry's at one point when they were exploring alternative refrigeration systems?

I wasn't at the company then, but yup.

[TrackRat]

Going back on topic, a friend made the statement that Engine Ice needs to be drained over the winter, as it's "corrosive." Again, this is his information. From what I've read, as long as I did an adequate flush of the system, before putting in the Engine Ice, I should be all set.

Do I need to run something else through the winter, or am I all set?

[MarkMarine]

Going back on topic, a friend made the statement that Engine Ice needs to be drained over the winter, as it's "corrosive." Again, this is his information. From what I've read, as long as I did an adequate flush of the system, before putting in the Engine Ice, I should be all set.

Do I need to run something else through the winter, or am I all set?

Please don't waste your money on engine ice. Get RV antifreeze and DI water. Flush the system a few times with DI water allowing the bike to heat up and open the thermostat (prob around 180-190 deg) or when the fan comes on, then fill it with propylene glycolI water and don't worry about it.
When spring comes, do the same thing except fill it with DI water and water wetter.

This is from Wikipedia:
The freezing point of water is depressed when mixed with propylene glycol owing to the effects of dissolution of a solute in a solvent (freezing-point depression); in general, glycols are non-corrosive, have very low volatility and very low toxicity (however, ethylene glycol is toxic to humans and many animals).

[GixerJockey]

So, who stores their bikes empty?

I'm lazy. I don't feel like draining the water, filling with actual coolant, then draining and flushing it in the spring only to re-fill it with water.



(bikes sit in a heated garage all winter btw...)

[MarkMarine]

I can't see that being a huge problem. You might get some AL corrosion and the seals/hoses might dry out, but the effects would prob only happen after a number of years.

[TrackRat]

Please don't waste your money on engine ice.

Appreciate it, but the money's already spent/wasted.

[CBR929RE]

So, who stores their bikes empty?

I'm lazy. I don't feel like draining the water, filling with actual coolant, then draining and flushing it in the spring only to re-fill it with water.



(bikes sit in a heated garage all winter btw...)

if its in a heated garage just leave the water in it.

[Rambunctous]

So, who stores their bikes empty?

I'm lazy. I don't feel like draining the water, filling with actual coolant, then draining and flushing it in the spring only to re-fill it with water.



(bikes sit in a heated garage all winter btw...)

I do just that. I only drain it and refill it when race time comes. I have never seen deposits or any ill effects. And I do disassemble the engine often.

[Eric Baker]

Only problem with leaving the system completely dry is going to be rust. The impeller/shaft in the water pump is steel, and will rust if not submerged and cut off from air. I found out the hard way with my R6 leaving it empty for one winter cause I was lazy and didn't want to fill it after draining. Needed to buy a new pump.

[nhbubba]

Also are you sure you got all the water out? Is there maybe a pocket of water in the block somewhere? And are you sure your heated garage won't loose heat/power?

Even if my garage were heated, I'd be swapping the coolant. We're talking like $20 and an hour or two of your time. If I can do it, any of you clowns can.

[carsick]

an hour or two of your time. If I can do it, any of you clowns can.

I'm assuming that includes the trip to the store for coolant, and the one hour ride to circulate it?

[nhbubba]

My mechanic may be slow.. but he's really cheap.

Taking the plastics off.. futz with the radio.. go top off the coffee.. find the catch pan.. find my snips.. de-safety wire everything.. crack the drain bolt/hose.. go take a piss.. figure out wtf the dog is barking at.. wiggle the bike a couple times to get the extra out.. detach the overflow tank.. spill coolant everywhere.. find some rags to sop up the mess.. put everything back together.. where the hell is the 12mm socket?.. find where I put the anti-freeze.. find where I put the deionized water.. find where I put my measuring thing.. find something to pour the old coolant into.. mix anti-freeze.. who's hungry?.. have a beer with lunch while watching half an episode of whatever the hell is on TV.. fill radiator.. start bike.. why no start?..

Give up and take up basket weaving.

[Jim]

Water drained and filled radiator with antifreeze. Bodywork off. Exhaust going off in a few hours. Let the winter work begin.